Planting Forbs into Existing Grasses

F

Freeborn

Member
Hi group,

In the next few years I will be inter-seeding additional Forbs and select grasses into about 40 acres of existing NWSG. This fall I want to add about 20 forbs to an existing acre planting that is near my buildings. The purpose of the acre is to have a nice diverse planting near my camp and to determine what forbs do well on my sandy/dry soils. I plan on cherry picking the better performing forbs and use them to inter-seed into my existing NWSG. The 40 acre planting will be done on a 1/3, 1/3 and 1/3 basis and I am thinking of planting the acre late fall or next spring.

My place is in Ottertail County Minnesota about 40 miles east of Fergus Falls. I?m looking for input on how and when to plant the acre. I don?t have a drill to use for this acre so I am thinking of using the following steps to plant.

1. Wait to late fall when the grasses are dormant
2. Mow the grass short and lightly roto-till the ground to about 1, 1- ? inches.
3. Cultipack
4. Broadcast seed
5. Lightly drag to cover
6. Cultipack

I?m concerned about disturbing the seed bed but was thinking the dormant soil should stop the weeds from coming up. I could also do this in early spring.

What do you guys think, what would you recommend?

Thanks Much.
 
How dense are your NWSG on your ground?
 
What kinds of weeds are you concerned about?

I don't have any experience when it comes to habitat out west in true pheasant country, but where I live I'd be inclined to run a disk through a grass stand to set back grasses and encourage forbs, which are commonly also called "weeds" by most. Disking closer to greenup encourages grasses, while doing so earlier (or the fall prior) encourages broadleafs more.

There are a few weeds I would worry about - thistles, nettles, a few invasives, but I'd welcome the rest of the weeds. This is also cheaper than trying to seed specific wildflowers and still provides an increase in diversity and bugs.
 
Freeborn said:
Hi group,

In the next few years I will be inter-seeding additional Forbs and select grasses into about 40 acres of existing NWSG. This fall I want to add about 20 forbs to an existing acre planting that is near my buildings. The purpose of the acre is to have a nice diverse planting near my camp and to determine what forbs do well on my sandy/dry soils. I plan on cherry picking the better performing forbs and use them to inter-seed into my existing NWSG. The 40 acre planting will be done on a 1/3, 1/3 and 1/3 basis and I am thinking of planting the acre late fall or next spring.

My place is in Ottertail County Minnesota about 40 miles east of Fergus Falls. I?m looking for input on how and when to plant the acre. I don?t have a drill to use for this acre so I am thinking of using the following steps to plant.

1. Wait to late fall when the grasses are dormant
2. Mow the grass short and lightly roto-till the ground to about 1, 1- ? inches.
3. Cultipack
4. Broadcast seed
5. Lightly drag to cover
6. Cultipack

I?m concerned about disturbing the seed bed but was thinking the dormant soil should stop the weeds from coming up. I could also do this in early spring.

What do you guys think, what would you recommend?

Thanks Much.
Click to expand...


I just realized your fairly close to Fergus. Call the USFWS office in Fergus Falls. They have been doing restorations for years and maybe would have another option for ya.
 
1GB said:
What kinds of weeds are you concerned about?

I don't have any experience when it comes to habitat out west in true pheasant country, but where I live I'd be inclined to run a disk through a grass stand to set back grasses and encourage forbs, which are commonly also called "weeds" by most. Disking closer to greenup encourages grasses, while doing so earlier (or the fall prior) encourages broadleafs more.

There are a few weeds I would worry about - thistles, nettles, a few invasives, but I'd welcome the rest of the weeds. This is also cheaper than trying to seed specific wildflowers and still provides an increase in diversity and bugs.
Click to expand...

I have actually done this method and the forb response was incredible. Solid Canada thistle and a hint of smooth brome. I would be careful with this method.
 
If this initial planting is going to be your production plot for the remaining acres or a test for how to, I'd maximize my efforts. If you're dead set on broadcasting the seed, you are going to have to maximize your seed/soil contact. Mowing is going to reduce that significantly. I don't know if you have the ability to burn, but removing all the duff and old growth would help you to that end. Probably wouldn't want to do that in the fall, however an early spring burn followed by the seeding and cultipacking would up your success. The disking might as well though it might also increase the competition with annual weeds. Personally, I'd recommend a grass drill for the planting. Evaluate your thatch and let that guide you on whether to burn or not. These tiny seedlings are at a competitive disadvantage going into an established grass stand. It will be important to tip the scales a bit in their favor.
 
I am also planning to bring forb interseeding into the ongoing grass acres management on our farm.

The reason being is that this is likely the best way to optimize your pheasant production on those acres.

Right now my ultimate plan is to spray for thistle the year before the burn with Milestone at a 5oz rate. We are doing a test plot on some acres that established well 3 years ago but now has some canadas in it. We plan to spray with milestone this fall after 2 nights of 25Degree temps and spray during midday warmup. This is in hopes of spraying when thistles are active and other desireables are dormant. this is recommended by the DOW rep.

We are not planning to interseed those acres or burn them quite yet but the dow rep say we could interseed the following spring based on that rate.

Assuming we have a way to control thistle the year prior to control burn we will then burn in spring and interseed with no till drill immediately after burn.

Other options we are pursuing is to interseed with milestone tolerant mixes.

Here is a great resource regarding prairie land management http://techlinenews.com/prairieguide
 
1GB said:
What kinds of weeds are you concerned about?

I don't have any experience when it comes to habitat out west in true pheasant country, but where I live I'd be inclined to run a disk through a grass stand to set back grasses and encourage forbs, which are commonly also called "weeds" by most. Disking closer to greenup encourages grasses, while doing so earlier (or the fall prior) encourages broadleafs more.

There are a few weeds I would worry about - thistles, nettles, a few invasives, but I'd welcome the rest of the weeds. This is also cheaper than trying to seed specific wildflowers and still provides an increase in diversity and bugs.
Click to expand...

Thanks for all the responses. For the 40 acres that I will plant in the next couple of years I plan on burning in the fall and then drilling the forbs I select based on my one acre test planting. In general my 40 acres of NWSG is pretty clean as I have worked very hard to keep primarily the thistle under control. I mostly spot spray now as the thistle is under control.

For the one acre I won't have access to a drill so I am thinking of using my 72" tiller to get dirt exposure and then broadcast my seed into the dirt. My concern about weeds is from the seeds I would be disturbing when I till the soil. This acre is pretty much weed free at this point.

If the soil is dormant when I till maybe weeds are not a concern??

The one acre where I want to plant the 20 different forbs hopefully will result in me being able to see what forbs do well on my sandy soil. If I have a terrible weed outbreak I should be able to control any weeds with mowing or chemicals.

I think the key for this acre is to get good seed to soil contact thats why i want to till the soil. I could try just broadcasting into existing grasses, mow and then packing but I think it would result in very little.

If I had access to a real no till drill my 35hp tractor would pull I would try that but I don't so the best thing I can figure out is to till the soil and then broadcast.
 
Thanks for the reference on how to use and what to use on habitat projects for weed control--great info.

Jim
 
UGUIDE said:
I am also planning to bring forb interseeding into the ongoing grass acres management on our farm.

The reason being is that this is likely the best way to optimize your pheasant production on those acres.

Right now my ultimate plan is to spray for thistle the year before the burn with Milestone at a 5oz rate. We are doing a test plot on some acres that established well 3 years ago but now has some canadas in it. We plan to spray with milestone this fall after 2 nights of 25Degree temps and spray during midday warmup. This is in hopes of spraying when thistles are active and other desireables are dormant. this is recommended by the DOW rep.

We are not planning to interseed those acres or burn them quite yet but the dow rep say we could interseed the following spring based on that rate.

Assuming we have a way to control thistle the year prior to control burn we will then burn in spring and interseed with no till drill immediately after burn.

Other options we are pursuing is to interseed with milestone tolerant mixes.

Here is a great resource regarding prairie land management http://techlinenews.com/prairieguide
Click to expand...

UGUIDE,

Thanks for providing the land management guide, great information. Let us know how your inter-seeding goes.
 
Freeborn said:
Thanks for all the responses. For the 40 acres that I will plant in the next couple of years I plan on burning in the fall and then drilling the forbs I select based on my one acre test planting. In general my 40 acres of NWSG is pretty clean as I have worked very hard to keep primarily the thistle under control. I mostly spot spray now as the thistle is under control.

For the one acre I won't have access to a drill so I am thinking of using my 72" tiller to get dirt exposure and then broadcast my seed into the dirt. My concern about weeds is from the seeds I would be disturbing when I till the soil. This acre is pretty much weed free at this point.

If the soil is dormant when I till maybe weeds are not a concern??

The one acre where I want to plant the 20 different forbs hopefully will result in me being able to see what forbs do well on my sandy soil. If I have a terrible weed outbreak I should be able to control any weeds with mowing or chemicals.

I think the key for this acre is to get good seed to soil contact thats why i want to till the soil. I could try just broadcasting into existing grasses, mow and then packing but I think it would result in very little.

If I had access to a real no till drill my 35hp tractor would pull I would try that but I don't so the best thing I can figure out is to till the soil and then broadcast.
Click to expand...

Freeborn, I would add that most all my weed problems come from poor estabishment issues. I would try and limit the disturbance to any soil to minimize weeds. Fro my money I have tried fall and spring seeding and the spring is the only way I will go now. I like to plant late in the window and then hit is with glyphosate 3 days after plant or at least before emergence. Those are the stands that have come in best for me. That is on new plantings of course and not interseeds.
 
That's what I was hoping. Do you have any poor soils that you have seen specific grasses/forbs that have done better than others?

Much of my planting was planted heavily with Dakota switch which is short in stature and a clay based grass so it has not done very well on my sandy soils. Why my NRCS rep recommended it for pheasant who knows?

I'm looking to add some diversity and height to my planting.

Thanks Much!
 
Freeborn said:
That's what I was hoping. Do you have any poor soils that you have seen specific grasses/forbs that have done better than others?

Much of my planting was planted heavily with Dakota switch which is short in stature and a clay based grass so it has not done very well on my sandy soils. Why my NRCS rep recommended it for pheasant who knows?

I'm looking to add some diversity and height to my planting.

Thanks Much!
Click to expand...

We have good silt loam soils. The only thing that we could have done better is design a mix that does better in the low spots to try and out compete the canada thistles in that realm. The broad brush approach could be a little more surgical. They do that with trees in cp-5a planting in the low spots but not so much with grass.
 
UGUIDE said:
We have good silt loam soils. The only thing that we could have done better is design a mix that does better in the low spots to try and out compete the canada thistles in that realm. The broad brush approach could be a little more surgical. They do that with trees in cp-5a planting in the low spots but not so much with grass.
Click to expand...

This is very similar to what we are doing.

http://prairieecologist.com/2015/08/03/chuck-norris-of-the-prairie/

The forbs out compete the Canada thistle very well.
 
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