Pen Raised vs Wild

[FCSpringer]

Too add, the year of the massive die off up here in "MN". It was the pen bird, yes the pen bird that saved the day. People like MN pheasants inc, sportsmens clubs, people like me all over, pope county pheasant restoration and so on released a massive amount of birds. Within a few years we had the best numbers we have ever seen, ever. For sure in my life time.

 

[1pheas4]

Ding, ding, ding. I knew someone got it LOL. Thank god for deep thick willow thickets and hard wood.

Come on man. If you meant thick areas of willows when you used the word "woods" you should have said it. This cat reads "woods" and thinks of a large area of hard wood trees i.e. a forest.

Yeah, I was in SD the winter of 2000. Same conditions as you mentioned in Mn. You could walk on top of the snow. I remember birds flushing out of rabbit holes in the snow. Rabbits played a big part in the pheasants ability to get under the snow to roost and find food.

It was something to see the dog disappearing under the snow to flush the birds. Also something to see everyone taking a step, staying on top of the snow, then the next step breaking through. Makes for some tough walking!:cheers:

 

[1pheas4]

Too add, the year of the massive die off up here in "MN". It was the pen bird, yes the pen bird that saved the day. People like MN pheasants inc, sportsmens clubs, people like me all over, pope county pheasant restoration and so on released a massive amount of birds. Within a few years we had the best numbers we have ever seen, ever. For sure in my life time.

Yeah, I'm going this route too. I'm starting to buy birds for release in areas that don't really have a wild bird population, but by all means should. Next week is the start of that journey. I just need a few hen's to survive and breed next spring.

 

[carptom1]

Come on man. If you meant thick areas of willows when you used the word "woods" you should have said it. This cat reads "woods" and thinks of a large area of hard wood trees i.e. a forest.

Yeah, I was in SD the winter of 2000. Same conditions as you mentioned in Mn. You could walk on top of the snow. I remember birds flushing out of rabbit holes in the snow. Rabbits played a big part in the pheasants ability to get under the snow to roost and find food.

It was something to see the dog disappearing under the snow to flush the birds. Also something to see everyone taking a step, staying on top of the snow, then the next step breaking through. Makes for some tough walking!:cheers:

i
One thing I can say for sure is that I CAN NEVER WALK ON TOP OF THE SNOW. EVER.

 

[1pheas4]

i
One thing I can say for sure is that I CAN NEVER WALK ON TOP OF THE SNOW. EVER.

LOL......You know, I have to tell you my old man and my uncle were up there too. They had a heck of a time out there. For some reason they broke through more than the rest of us. Most their time was spent standing at the corner of fields or next to the vehicles.

 

[shorthairs4life]

The rooster pheasant pictured above has a blinder on. These blinders are placed on the pheasants when raised in pens so they won't peck each other to death. The blinders are attached thru the pheasants nostrils. The blinders are then removed just prior to release.

Pen raised pheasants have large open nostrils. Wild pheasants nostrils are not open at all.

This is the easiest way to tell if you have shot a pen raised bird or a wild one.

I have heard stories of guys being told that they are hunting wild birds, and then find out later they were pen raised.

Now you will be able to tell easily yourself.

You can't count on the nostrils to differentiate. The hunting businesses that are smart will pay an extra $1 per bird and the birds will never have blinders and you won't be able to tell and think no differently. Chances are if no one in your group ever kills a bird with 2nd year spurs maybe you should start thinking twice.

 

[FCSpringer]

Come on man. If you meant thick areas of willows when you used the word "woods" you should have said it. This cat reads "woods" and thinks of a large area of hard wood trees i.e. a forest.

Yeah, I was in SD the winter of 2000. Same conditions as you mentioned in Mn. You could walk on top of the snow. I remember birds flushing out of rabbit holes in the snow. Rabbits played a big part in the pheasants ability to get under the snow to roost and find food.

It was something to see the dog disappearing under the snow to flush the birds. Also something to see everyone taking a step, staying on top of the snow, then the next step breaking through. Makes for some tough walking!:cheers:

Actually I said both woods and willows, good god man. Even woody cover was mentioned whats the difference. Woody, woods, groves, trees, tree rows, bushes, shrubs, forests, pines, oaks elms, willow.. Hope I covered enough now LOL. Farm groves, shelter belts. And I am not sure on the year. Snow was not quite so bad west. It may not have been 2000, close. But you did not have to worry about sinking in here not one step. You could jump up and down. Deer were found froze to death standing up in the snow in standing corn fields. Covered them up too. It was nasty.

 

[FCSpringer]

I will give you my personal guarantee, on the right storm, and area, you will in fact be able to drive on top of the snow even.:thumbsup: walking will not be a problem LOL. We can walk on water here too.:thumbsup:

Southerner's LOL:cheers:

 

[mnmthunting]

Yeah, You can walk on snow, even very large folks.
This is what You need to happen (NOT at all unusual)
Heavy snow, drifting or not drifting.
Day or two of thawing weather OR some freezing rain.
A crust develops.
Go walk on snow.
Hard drifting and a thaw will speed up the process.

Here's the thing about woods and woody cover.

Woody cover mixed in with a grassland. A GOOD THING.

Grassy areas with in a Woodland. NOT SO GOOD.

 

[carptom1]

I will give you my personal guarantee, on the right storm, and area, you will in fact be able to drive on top of the snow even.:thumbsup: walking will not be a problem LOL. We can walk on water here too.:thumbsup:

Southerner's LOL:cheers:

Man I have been a sucker more than once on that. I think I'm doing good than bam! Up to my jewels in snow. Thought I was going to die up there a couple of times. Got to go my biscuits and gravy are here

 

[FCSpringer]

Man I have been a sucker more than once on that. I think I'm doing good than bam! Up to my jewels in snow. Thought I was going to die up there a couple of times. Got to go my biscuits and gravy are here

You need to wait till its 50 below during 50 mile an hr wind. the cold and wind makes it like concrete.:thumbsup: Great time. Seen roads cut out through banks that had cars on top 8-10' high as you drive by them.

 

[carptom1]

You need to wait till its 50 below during 50 mile an hr wind. the cold and wind makes it like concrete.:thumbsup: Great time. Seen roads cut out through banks that had cars on top 8-10' high as you drive by them.

I don't doubt it. But you have to admit it isn't like that during bird hunting season very often. I remember one time 6-7 years ago in SD in late dec. It was cold as hell. I fell through the ice in a pothole that had flash froze early, than the water flowed out from under it. I was in knee high water, but in ice up to my armpits. Scared me good. By the time I got to the truck about a mile away, my coat was frozen sticking straight out away from me. I looked like a big duck

 

[jonnyB]

I do recall hunting the day after a SD blizzard - maybe 10-12 years ago, near Miller.


Drifts on the sides of the fields were waist high and crusted. A very strenuous fight to plunge through the drifts in order to get to the fields - felt like a heart attack exercise. Lots of work for a guy 65!

The birds were bunched in the groves, very few in the grass or under the snow. We had a good shoot, but the birds were bunched and very wild.

 

[FCSpringer]

I don't doubt it. But you have to admit it isn't like that during bird hunting season very often. I remember one time 6-7 years ago in SD in late dec. It was cold as hell. I fell through the ice in a pothole that had flash froze early, than the water flowed out from under it. I was in knee high water, but in ice up to my armpits. Scared me good. By the time I got to the truck about a mile away, my coat was frozen sticking straight out away from me. I looked like a big duck

LOL, well I do actually believe it or not hunt in 30 below wind chill plus every year. It is the best time to hunt if you can get out. Had my pants stand on their own many times LOL.

 

[1pheas4]

I don't doubt it. But you have to admit it isn't like that during bird hunting season very often. I remember one time 6-7 years ago in SD in late dec. It was cold as hell. I fell through the ice in a pothole that had flash froze early, than the water flowed out from under it.

Yeah, that's not fun. I did the same thing 2 years ago in SD. Blizzard conditions, solid ice everywhere on the pot hole/pond, then out-of-blue; BOOM!!! I went straight down. My shotgun braced me from going completely under the ice. Yeah, scary as all could be on the way down. Just another day of pheasant hunters living on the edge

 

[FCSpringer]

Pretty much from Dec till Jan closing here we don't have too much trouble with going through. It gets colder this northern half of the state sooner. So that last month most sloughs are safe. Some are never safe, spring fed. There are normally tell tail signs for that though and it does not take too long to figure it out LOL. We pray for cold before snow, we prayfor no freezing rain, and we pray for modest snow falls with periodic melts. If we get cold before snow, Ice is safe. The rest just helps the birds get through. 1 bad winter can really screw up an area.

 

[Preston1]

I just wanted to add a few points to the subject of dumb birds. Yes after generations and generations of living in a pen pheasant and quail will pick each other, and when they are released into the wild they are kind of stupid. But what can we expect after 70 to 100 generations of well feed pen life, with no predators no danger.

With wild pheasant numbers down 50% to 70% down across the traditional pheasant range (down 70 to 80% in drought areas) some people may be temped to release pen raised pheasants and I don't blame them. But the pen raised pheasants today may need more authentic wild blood added to the pen raised gene pool.

Looks at the links below showing photos wild authentic pheasants (ringneck type)from the wild back country of China:

http://wntvapple.blog.163.com/blog/static/16586197020101097222853/

http://blog1.poco.cn/myBlogDetail-htx-id-5459925-userid-6419191-pri--n-0.xhtml

Notest on both the authentic wild hens and wild roasters have yellow iris. And how they maintain a wary and alert posture.
Eighty percent of the commercially available ringneck hens once they reach adulthood have dark eyes, a sign of many many generations in a pen.
The states and preserves that release pheasants should try to obtain authentic wild pheasants to use as brood stock.

According to Jean Delacour (the True Pheasant expert) the Melanistic Mutant pheasant first showed up in Norfolk, England in 1880 and by 1930's American game breeders had them. So those pheasants may be 80 to 130 generations of pen life.

Along with good weather and good habitat we also need new authentic wild pheasant blood (genes) from the true wild, to be used as brood stock for pen raised pheasants.

 

[FCSpringer]

Mine are all yellow eyed. Good to go:thumbsup: Actualy some of these birds are with a wild mix. May be part of why they do so well after release.

 

[bauerline]

I was looking at the eyes today when I was checking on the birds and the roosters all seem to have the yellow eyes. I tried to get a good picture but this is the best I got:

I need to take the better camera.

The hens I looked at had black eyes with no other color.

 

[1pheas4]

With wild pheasant numbers down 50% to 70% down across the traditional pheasant range (down 70 to 80% in drought areas) some people may be temped to release pen raised pheasants and I don't blame them. But the pen raised pheasants today may need more authentic wild blood added to the pen raised gene pool.

I went to purchase birds a couple weeks back for release. This was in attempt to repopulate an area that had birds 4-5 years ago but no longer does due to year after year WET springs. When I stopped through to pick my birds up they were way too tame for restocking purposes. I left them there.

On the other hand, I know a gentlemen who keeps his pens behind his barn and out-of-site from anyone or anything. I told him about the Manchurian crosses back there a few years ago so he gave them a try.

Seldom did these birds see humans, dogs, cars, etc. When I walked around the corner of his barn to take a look at his birds they when nuts. Almost wild like behavior. They busted all their wing tips off because they were so agitated and working so hard to get out of the pen and away from me. Such birds with such traits and minimal exposure to humans and such have a better chance of survival in the wild.

Those are the kind of birds I need to release. Macfarlane's "afghan whitewing"/bionchi should do the same when left alone (as much as possible) in a pen. I'm releasing some of those along with Manchurian in a few weeks. I'll let everyone interested know how "wild like" they act.

FC, yes! crossing your birds with wild blood make a huge difference in how birds act. There's a gentlemen from Wis. that tried the same thing and had great results. The difference between how his pen bred chicks acted vs. pen bred/crossed with wild bloodlines was night and day.