P.c. hagenbecki

J

James Pfarr

New member
P.c. hagenbecki (Kobdo pheasant) is not pallasi (manchurian)..In hagenbecki only about 10 % have a cheek patch, much more tail ruff color, term. marks are a "W" not bell shape, crown is olive- bronze, and tend to have a little purple in the tht.
 
Thank you for sharing he pic's of these pheasants. I think it's very cool you raise different types.:thumbsup::cheers:
 
James Pfarr said:
P.c. hagenbecki (Kobdo pheasant) is not pallasi (manchurian)..In hagenbecki only about 10 % have a cheek patch, much more tail ruff color, term. marks are a "W" not bell shape, crown is olive- bronze, and tend to have a little purple in the tht.
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I found these wild pheasant photos from somewhere in China (?) Which of the two (hagenbecki or Pallasi) they are I'm not sure. Possibly neither.

Nevertheless these are wild birds in their native land. Just though some of you folks would enjoy these.

http://blog1.poco.cn/myBlogDetail-htx-id-5459925-userid-6419191-pri--n-0.xhtml
 
1pheas4, how did you manage to find those great pure wild ring necked photos? Great job, thanks for posting them.

First of all we have to remember that all of the True Pheasants (ring-necked type) sub-species what is called the grey-rumped pheasant family, naturally overlap and interbreed. The hens of all of these subspecies look alike.

So those photos may have been take in northern China just north of the Korean border where in the natural wild world the Chinese ring-necked pheasant (P.c. torqatus), the Manchurian ring-necked pheasant (P.c. pallasi) and the Korean ring-necked pheasant (P.c. karpowi) all naturally merge or overlap.

Remember these are man made names, but to the average American pheasant hunter they look like Kansas wild pheasants.

Those authentic wild pheasants are beautiful. We need to get more authentic wild pheasant blood (genes) imported to north America to maintain a wild, wary and predator alert gene pool.
 
Preston1, I have a few more nice sites you can look at. I can't read anything on these sites, but I'm assuming these photos are from Asia. Particularly the first site below. Did I send you a PM with a website containing photos of wild Strauchi/Sichuans pheasants in Sichuan China? Let me know if I didn't send that too yo and I'll post it.

p.s--the second site (below) has a small pop up that comes up on the bottom right corner of the site. Just close it once and it won't reappear.;) Also, on the fist site, about 3/4 the way down it says in English "Rothschild". I don't know if Rothschild sub-species even exists in the wild anymore. Maybe someone would know more about this?

http://www.birdnet.cn/showtopic.aspx?topicid=299544

http://wntvapple.blog.163.com/blog/static/16586197020101097222853/
 
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Thanks! for sharing the photos.:thumbsup:
 
You would think as many people as china has they would have more clean farming and less pheasant habitat.:eek:
 
1pheas4 said:
Preston1, I have a few more nice sites you can look at. I can't read anything on these sites, but I'm assuming these photos are from Asia. Particularly the first site below. Did I send you a PM with a website containing photos of wild Strauchi/Sichuans pheasants in Sichuan China? Let me know if I didn't send that too yo and I'll post it.

p.s--the second site (below) has a small pop up that comes up on the bottom right corner of the site. Just close it once and it won't reappear.;) Also, on the fist site, about 3/4 the way down it says in English "Rothschild". I don't know if Rothschild sub-species even exists in the wild anymore. Maybe someone would know more about this?

http://www.birdnet.cn/showtopic.aspx?topicid=299544

http://wntvapple.blog.163.com/blog/static/16586197020101097222853/
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1pheas4, your first link (the one ending in 299544) has a treasure chest of valuable information on the True Pheasant subspecies, the old saying a picture is worth a thousand words comes to mind.

If you scroll down to the 15th slide (page1) we can see a clear picture of what I have been trying to explain for years, and that is that those "so-called" ring-necked subspecies are unstable in the real wild world. It is what Jean Delacour describes (book The Pheasant of the World page 267) as intermediary between two groups. In parts China where the regular ringneck pheasant in central part of that country geographically meet or merge with the Sichuan pheasant (Strauchi) in the southern part of that country. Both hen subspecies look alike. In that the intermediary zone both subspecies that live together of thousands of year. So in the area you can flush a rooster with a full ring around the neck and one with no sign of a ring at all and guess what, they can be brothers. On that slide 15 we have two healthy wild roosters True Pheasant (Ring-necked type) walking. The top rooster has phenotype (appearance) of a Sichuan/Strauchi Pheasant and the bottom rooster has all of the appearance of ringneck pheasant (P.c. torquatus) aka blue back pheasant. Those two could easily be brothers in that area.

In that same link go to page 11 slide no. 6 (fermo527). We can find information in English. The writer talks about unstable subspecies and those subspecies being subject to clinal variations.

I am saying all this to make this point, the first pheasants imported to Oregon in the 1880's by judge Owen Danny from Shaighui, China could have had Sichuan pheasant genes and regular Ring-necked genes.


North Dakota, Michigan, Oregon, Texas and many many other state have added Strauchi or Sichuan pheasants to add alertness and agility to their wild ringneck gene pool.

Could some one explain why the state of Minnesota DNR single out the Sichuan/Strauchi Pheasant (an authentic True Pheasant-Ring-Necked Type) as an invasive specie and not the other 30 subspecies of the Ring-necked pheasant. See link below:
http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/eco/invasives/laws.html

Our North American wild pheasant population is made up of an amalgamation of all 30 subspecies of the True Pheasant. So why was the Strauchi/Sichuan singled out.

Why didn't Pheasants Forever take up for its name sake, the wild True Pheasants in North America.

An attack on one subspecie of True pheasants (ringneck family) is an attack on all of the ringneck family. They are the same specie and the hens of all subspecies look alike and most importantly they share the same mitochondria DNA.
 
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Agreed Preston, the Minnesota DNR logic escapes me....maybe they use the same logic as the Nebraska G&P.
I WISH the NGP would would add some pure strained Pheasant to the
population.

I have been told that in the way way back years their were Golden Pheasant in Nebraska down by Red Cloud. Never seen one in the wild.
 
I didn't know Minnesota's DNR had the pheasant on their "invasive" list. Sounds ridiculous to me. The Sichuan pheasant needs to come off this list.

Here in Illinois we have Sichuan (Strauchi) genes in our birds. My cousin has one (mount) sitting over his television.

I shot a wild bird a few weeks (IL) ago that had very obvious Sichuan traits. I'll be sending the feathers in for DNA testing in a few weeks.

Those of you from Min. should probably contact your DNR and start demanding that the pheasant comes off your invasive list. There is a "all things native" movement that is going a bit too far in some areas. It includes the removal of the ring neck pheasant from our landscape.

We need to kill this thing before it takes root.

pres1, here's how I'm finding these sites. Copy and paste this into Google images 雉鸡 I believe it says "common Pheasant"
 
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Preston1 said:
North Dakota, Michigan, Oregon, Texas and many many other state have added Strauchi or Sichuan pheasants to add alertness and agility to their wild ringneck gene pool.

Could some one explain why the state of Minnesota DNR single out the Sichuan/Strauchi Pheasant (an authentic True Pheasant-Ring-Necked Type) as an invasive specie and not the other 30 subspecies of the Ring-necked pheasant. See link below:
http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/eco/invasives/laws.html

Our North American wild pheasant population is made up of an amalgamation of all 30 subspecies of the True Pheasant. So why was the Strauchi/Sichuan singled out.

Why didn't Pheasants Forever take up for its name sake, the wild True Pheasants in North America.

An attack on one subspecie of True pheasants (ringneck family) is an attack on all of the ringneck family. They are the same specie and the hens of all subspecies look alike and most importantly they share the same mitochondria DNA.
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Preston1, I met with Howard Vincent (CEO of Pheasants Forever) yesterday and disused this issue with him. Like most of us, he wasn't aware of the Sichuan (or what I call a "ring-less ringneck pheasant") being on MN "invasive" list. Howard was a bit taken back by it.

He's going to look into it. I'm going to keep in contact with PF (Nat'l) to see what comes about it all.

I also left a voice mail with James Pfarr in case I need a letter sent to Howard and the DNR regarding pheasant genetics and the Sichuan's genetic connection with "ringnecks" in the US. I'm sure he's willing to help too.

Hopefully we can kill this one before it takes root and spreads to other states.;)
 
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LOts of great Info on this thread thanks to all for sharing. I'm getting an education. Keep it up.:thumbsup:
 
WOW! The Sichaun pheasant is on the Minnesota invasive species list.:(
So what will they invade?
If they do fill avoid, so what?:confused:
Seems to me to be great opportunity for upland hunters. :thumbsup:
But you know:eek: Our MN DNR has been ummmmm,-------- draw your own conclusions.:rolleyes:
 
mnmthunting said:
WOW! The Sichaun pheasant is on the Minnesota invasive species list.:(
So what will they invade?
If they do fill avoid, so what?:confused:
Seems to me to be great opportunity for upland hunters. :thumbsup:
But you know:eek: Our MN DNR has been ummmmm,-------- draw your own conclusions.:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Isn't this ridiculous!!!

If the sichaun gets listed in Illinois too this would include many of our wild birds that carry the sichaun (strauchi) gene!

James Pfar basically made the point last night that one moment our Gov't agencies are spending millions to get the sishuan established in the wild, the next minute they're listing it as invasive.

This "invasive" move lacks logic.

Again, this is ridiculous. If it starts to take root, can really turn into a mess.
 
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You might want to take note of the policy of the USFW service. They are on a crusade to manage strictly for "native" species. This includes erradication of invasive species, (there's that word again), like russian olive, a species that allows for survival of pheasants in harsher areas of the west. Elimination of pheasants as a result of this activity is met by the retorical response, "are they native?" The implication obvious. There are others on this site who can give first hand testimony. Sounds like all these wildlife agencies went to the same seminar and drank the same Kool-aid.
 
1pheas4, thanks for the follow through.

People all over the world love the the Ringneck pheasant (the True Pheasant) and all of their sub-species. The ringneck pheasant is a "class act" and should not be placed into the same boat as the starlings that you see lined up on a power line.

The people who care about wild pheasants in this country will have to achieve what the wild horse people have achieved. And that is having laws in place protecting the wild horse as a valuable part American western pioneering heritage:
http://www.blm.gov/nm/st/en/prog/wild_horse_and_burro.html

George Washington released pheasants on his farm at Mt. Vernon and Benjamin Franklin's nephew released pheasant on their farm in New Jersey.
That sounds like a part of American heritage to me.

We need something to separate the wild pheasant from being lumped into this non-native bag. This would get the "earthy" people that push the non-native attack (who never saw a wild pheasant flush in a wild field) off the backs of wild pheasants in this country.
 
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