Over-Under Tips for an O/U Newbie.

JohndoeboyNE

JohndoeboyNE

New member
I get a lot of hunting in during season, and 9 times out of 10 if the bird flushes I down it. I bought my first over-under this year, a Franchi Instinct SL, and I love how the gun feels and mounts on my shoulder, but as far as accuracy is concerned I'm struggling with getting on the birds with the first shot. Typically, I shoot under/over and the 1st shot has been a miss every time so far. I've connected only twice on the upper with the second shot, but that might be more due to dumb luck. I'm running improved cylider on the under and light modified on the upper. I've taken it out to shoot some clays and had moderate success. What are some tips you would have for someone who has been a pump/autoloader hunter that switches to an over-under?
 
Hello, I bought my first over under this year also. First I suggest you take some time and pattern your gun. My auto shot high and my over under shoots 50/50. So I have to make sure I get a solid gun mount and get my cheek on the stock.
 
Do your research on your specific gun. I have read that the top barrel provides a more stable flex as its joined and re-enforce by the lower barrel. Therefore and in theory your first shot in the lower barrel should be good for closer distance hence a wide pattern choke. The top barrel for longer distance hence a tighter choke. Hope this makes sense but its based on what I have read and according to my shooting instructor. It also helps with the recoil when the lower is fired first.
I shoot, as my go to gun, an auto now and reserve the over/under for occasional hunts( 20ga Rizzini). Your selection as you have pointed out should be the correct one so it may take a bit of practice to get comfortable with the gun. Here is a website editorial on the subject.

Which Barrel on Over-Under Shotguns? - https://john1911.com/which-barrel-on-over-under-shotguns/​

 
By the way Johndoeboy I was in your neck of the woods this past weekend & WOW hot and few birds but always good to be back on my childhood grounds.
 
I consider myself a pretty good shot with a shotgun and usually have no problem switching from one gun to another. I've shot pumps, autos, O/U's and SxS's and been very successful with all. BUT, I have run into a couple of guns (one an O/U and the other a SxS) that seemed to fit me really well but I couldn't hit squat with either. Never could figure out what the problem was so each went down the road. I would suggest you try these 3 things:
1. Check the point of aim (POA) / point of impact (POI) of each barrel. This is different than patterning the gun. There are various sources on the internet that discuss this and show you how to do it.
2. Pattern the gun.
3. Make sure the gun fits you properly. Some shotguns come with shims to adjust fit. Not sure about the Instinct SL.

If none of the above works do what I did and trade it off for something else. :)
 
Plain and simple if your gun doesn't hit a still target how you think it should when you point it. It doesn't fit how you need it to fit. Whether it feels good or not. That's why i stick with sbe, shoots exactly where I want.
 
Hunthemup said:
By the way Johndoeboy I was in your neck of the woods this past weekend & WOW hot and few birds but always good to be back on my childhood grounds.
Click to expand...
Yeah, last weekend was pretty rough. I didn't bother going out Saturday because of the temps, but I did Sunday morning for a couple of hours. I took my Wingmaster and no problems with hitting birds then! They were in pretty light cover all morning. I missed my opportunity to bag my first prairie chicken. Held off because I thought it was an odd-sounding hen until I saw the fan tail.

Also, thanks for the link. I had a good chuckle at his way of remembering the one dot/two dot of barrel selection. Yeah, I'm not familiar with the over/under format, let alone hunting with it. I might have to take a break and break some clays for an afternoon just to pattern it, get used to swinging and shooting it.
 
My two cents. These dimensions taken from the Remington and Franchi websites for the 870 and the Instinct SL.

LOP is the same, 14 1/4”

Drop at Comb is not. Remington 2 1/2” and Franchi 1 1/2”.

Drop at Heel Remington 1 1/2” Franchi 2”.

First of all I believe the Remington website has the two drops reversed. That stock would run uphill from the receiver. Not too likely. Other non-Remington sites have DAC 1 1/2” and DAH at 2 1/2” which would be typical.

So your Remington drops 1” from comb to heel and your Franchi drops 1/2”? That’s a big difference in stocking.

The Franchi has a straighter stock; it may be setting your eye higher above the rib than the Remington causing you to shoot high on that first shot.

Then maybe you really push your cheek down on the comb thus lowering your eye and get a hit? Do you notice the comb slapping you pretty good on that second shot that hits?

If so you could have a stock maker reshape your stock to fairly closely match the Remington.

$0.02, just IMO

(I actually have my shotguns set up with fairly straight stocks. It allows me to float the bird above the barrels and I don’t have to cover or blot out the bird)
 
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Going to try again out there but perhaps I may end up around the Scottsbluff region right after Thanksgiving. Have a couple of private fields which is reported to have some good number of birds combine with some "walk-ins". This time I hope to do better. Its a way to drive but may be worth it. Love the area too.
Keep up with your O/U attempts and it may pay off.
 
Gun fit again. Found this. It's not like going to a good fitter but it might tell you if you NEED to shim your adjustable stock or go to a good fitter.

www.theyorkshiregent.com

Gun Fitting Guide: How to Fit a Shotgun to Yourself | The Yorkshire Gent

Correct gun fit is one of the three fundamental building blocks to successful shotgun shooting. We have already covered the other two – eye dominance and gun mount so this article completes the foundation series. Think of these three building blocks a bit like a tripod. Together, they make a...
www.theyorkshiregent.com www.theyorkshiregent.com

"You can go to the trouble of measuring your own gun’s drop or you can simply mount your gun in front of a mirror (of course it should be proven empty and safe first) and look at where your master eye sits in relation to the rib. The iris should sit central and directly on top it of it, like this:"

Correct Drop
gun fit 1.PNG

Incorrect Drop
Gunfit2.PNG

Correct and Incorrect Cast.

Gunfit3.PNG

OK, I'll quit talking about fit now. At least for a while. :)
 
I think you need 2 things:

1) More experience with the new gun.
2) Take more time on the first shot. I found when I switched to an O/U that I could shoulder the gun much faster because it was lighter and would rush the first shot. Took me a while to learn to slow down from my old 870, relax, and get a good clean first shot off.

Now I am shocked as hell whenever I miss the first shot. BTW, have had my 20ga Beretta 868 since the mid 90s and i use it for all manner of fowl from quail to geese.
 
If you have a barrel-select safety, shoot the bottom barrel first because there is less kick displacement than with the top barrel. If you don't have a selective safety, the gun will shoot the bottom first.

I shoot a Browning Citori 625 which patterns 60% above center, 40% below. It's set up this way so you can keep the entire bird in view when you pull the trigger and the bird will be in the middle of the pattern.

On pheasants I shoot IC and modified. If it's late season and/or quite windy, mod and full.
 
"First off, shotgun manufacturers generally design shotguns to fit a male shooter who wears a size 40 jacket, weighs 180 lbs., is 5’10” tall and has average facial dimensions. The more that your body deviates from these generic specifications, the more likely it is that some intervention will be required to get your eye centered above the rib of your shotgun. https://www.doncurrie.com/gun-fitting/ "

Because of this, a shotgun will throw different % above/ % below patterns depending on the person shooting it.

A 5' 6" guy that wears a 34" sleeve and weighs in at 160 and a 6' 6' guy that wears a 36" sleeve and weighs 250 will very likely get different high/low percentages from the same gun.

Even skinny face / fat face makes a big difference in patterning left/center/right on the same gun. The eye is the rear sight. The Rear sight should be moved in the Same direction as your intended point of impact. If you habitually break the right wing on a bird, you need to move your eye left, usually by adding cast off. Same with high/low; if you habitually shoot low, you need to raise your eye, usually by raising the comb.

I have been looking at the Savage's Renegauge shotgun. I don't know much about it's reliability but MAN...did they make it adjustable!

savagearms.com

How to Find the Perfect Shotgun Fit with Renegauge

Proper shotgun fit is key for consistent and accurate shooting. Renegauge is a fully customizable semi-autos shotgun with LOP, drop and cast adjustments.
savagearms.com savagearms.com

In Savage's instructions on how to set up the Renegauge, there's this little factoid that shows how important getting your eye in the right place really is:

"If the cast is slightly wrong, you’ll tend to miss your shots side to side. If your eyes are misaligned by even a ¼”, that becomes nearly 6 feet at 30-40 yards. Big miss."

Ok, I'm off to check out the Renegauge. <I'm back...man, the Renegauge is HEAVY. It's an 8 pound shotgun. Even my 12ga O/U is a couple ounces under that. Randy Wakeman hates it :) "If the excessive weight of the Renegauge (for a 3 inch field gun) doesn't turn you off, the spectacularly miserable nose-heavy balance and handling most assuredly will."> Oh well.
 
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Chestie useful tool . Go slow with the gun mounts and do to several times, I would think doing the mount eyes closed, complete, open eyes telling!
 
Beware of statements like this:
"If the cast is slightly wrong, you’ll tend to miss your shots side to side. If your eyes are misaligned by even a ¼”, that becomes nearly 6 feet at 30-40 yards. Big miss."
There is a lot of difference between 30 and 40 yards. Hypothetically if your shotgun shot of by 6ft at 40 yards, then at 30 yards if would be off by 4 ft. 20 yards it would be off by 2 ft. 10 yards it would off by 1 ft.


Quick internet search resulted in this:
TIP: One easy way to test gun fit is to hang up a bedsheet, make an aiming mark on it, and take several shots at it from 16 yards, mounting the gun and shooting quickly each time. After four or five shots, a hole will appear where your pattern is centered. If the pattern is centered on or an inch or two above the aiming mark, the fit is right. At 16 yards, every 2 inches off center equals 1?8 inch needed change in stock dimension.
www.fieldandstream.com

Hits and Myths: 9 Principles of Shotgun Shooting Put to the Test

Photo Illustrations by: Michael Sugrue What do you look for when you choose a shotgun for wingshooting? Your ideal shotgun depends on what you need it for, and certain conventions are common knowledge. For instance, a heavy, long-barreled goose gun isn’t suitable for use in a grouse thicket...
www.fieldandstream.com www.fieldandstream.com
 
I think the point Savage was making is that 1/4” off at the stock will result in being several feet off at the bird. Basically a fraction of an inch off at the stock can be a big deal.

I’ve done the bedsheet deal before. It works. U can go through a few bedsheets fine tuning though.

Now I use two 36” wide sheets of butcher paper taped together. 6’ x 6’ is plenty and you can tape a stick on the bottom to weight it down. Keeps my bride a little happier;)
 
1/4 inch off equals 4 inches at 16 yards.
8 inches at 32 yards.
12 inches at 48 yards.
 
My point is (I know this is taboo on the internet). Gun fit is not the reason you're missing a 20- 25 yard pheasant.
It's something fundamental... You're lifting your head. You're bead checking (measuring the barrel in relation to the bird) are two that are very common. If you're chipping or hacking these birds, then it could be a gun fit issue.
 
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