On Deck...Switchgrass and other renewables

UGUIDE

UGUIDE

Active member
Seems like in the news lately the corn ethanol bubble is burst. Way too much water fro gallon of fuel, etc. etc. So next on deck is all the hype about switch grass and how much better it is.

When will we see big bales of switchgrass heading to the plants and what are major constraints, concerns, issues about producers and purchase contractors? Are we still technology constrained on the converstion of switch to ethanol?

Did anybody happen to go to any of the renewable fuels forums at Pheasant Fest? I would have liked to but didn't make a one.
 
I have been wondering, how much storage will they need for all of the switchgrass they will be needing? And how much transportation cost associated with it? How many gallons of ethonal will they be able to get from one truckload of switchgrass compared to one truckload of corn? I may be ignorant to the whole ethonal subject but logistically I think it would be a nightmare.
Bucky
 
In Iowa POET is going online in a couple of years with an ethanol plant that will use corn cobs. I think it is the first commercial plant to use them. The thing I wonder about the switch grass is when they would harvest it. Is it a fall harvest or earlier in the year when birds might be still nesting in it. It is a warm season grass so I am guessing that it would be cut in SEP and bailed. So that would not be too bad for pheasants. I think the corn cobs will have more promise because it is a bi-product of something all ready being produced.
 
Moellermd, it will be interesting to see how the corn cob thing works. These would be obvious limiting factors to me on that one.

1. Would need special harvesting equipment to preserve cobs? Now they are spit out the back of combine which is good for soil because you need to convert plant litter to organic matter to maintain balanced soils.
2. I don't see a lot of big time production farmers that lease land spending time shipping corn cobs to ethanol plants or converting there existing equipment (I may be wrong on this).

I think you are right about a Sept harvest for warm season grass. It would be much better for environment to have a 1000 acres in grass vs. corn. Sure you cut the plant litter on switch and remove biomass but the remaining living planting is still fixing biomass and nutrients from atmosphere into the soil and roots continue to filter sediments and hold soils in place while reducing erosion as well.
 
Last night in Obama's speech to congress he said the following:

"So I ask this Congress to send me legislation that places a market-based cap on carbon pollution and drives the production of more renewable energy."

What exactly is the intention here. If this comes to fruition is it further reason to believe rumors of the impending death of corn ethanol. Or just the opposite.

Would the fact that native prairie grass is an effective carbon storage agent as well as potential source of renewable energy elevate it above the fray?

There were really no details other than the above statement so wandering if anyone is knowledgeable as to what exactly Obama was referring too.
 
Downtown Bang! said:
Last night in Obama's speech to congress he said the following:

"So I ask this Congress to send me legislation that places a market-based cap on carbon pollution and drives the production of more renewable energy."

What exactly is the intention here. If this comes to fruition is it further reason to believe rumors of the impending death of corn ethanol. Or just the opposite.

Would the fact that native prairie grass is an effective carbon storage agent as well as potential source of renewable energy elevate it above the fray?

There were really no details other than the above statement so wandering if anyone is knowledgeable as to what exactly Obama was referring too.
Click to expand...

Well, the "theory" is that emissions trading is the best way to achieve pollution reduction at the lowest possible cost to society and provides incentive for companies to switch to greener (renewable) sources of energy.

Companies that exceed the federal cap on emissions would be forced to pay a tax penalty or purchase carbon credits from other companies that pollute less.

I'm not sure what immediate effect this would have on the ethanol industry though because most experts estimate that 2nd generation biofuels, like cellulosic ethanol, are 5-10 years away from large scale commercial production.
 
JMB, well Landman and me are doing are part sucking carbon out of the air and storing it on our farms. Landman, where's my check? I haven't got one yet.

I would have thought the cellulosic tech was further along than that so that kinda answers my question. I don't see the switchgrass programs start going until they can run volume.
 
Moellermd, it will be interesting to see how the corn cob thing works. These would be obvious limiting factors to me on that one.

1. Would need special harvesting equipment to preserve cobs? Now they are spit out the back of combine which is good for soil because you need to convert plant litter to organic matter to maintain balanced soils.
2. I don't see a lot of big time production farmers that lease land spending time shipping corn cobs to ethanol plants or converting there existing equipment (I may be wrong on this).


I know several companies are working on equipment that can be used on existing combines to collect the cobs. I think most farmers would welcome the chance to remove some trash from the field. Modern BT corn hybrids produce stocks that does not break down very well. That is why you see a lot more guys ripping fields, to bury the trash deep so they do not have to deal with it in the spring.
 
moellermd said:
Moellermd, it will be interesting to see how the corn cob thing works. These would be obvious limiting factors to me on that one.

1. Would need special harvesting equipment to preserve cobs? Now they are spit out the back of combine which is good for soil because you need to convert plant litter to organic matter to maintain balanced soils.
2. I don't see a lot of big time production farmers that lease land spending time shipping corn cobs to ethanol plants or converting there existing equipment (I may be wrong on this).


I know several companies are working on equipment that can be used on existing combines to collect the cobs. I think most farmers would welcome the chance to remove some trash from the field. Modern BT corn hybrids produce stocks that does not break down very well. That is why you see a lot more guys ripping fields, to bury the trash deep so they do not have to deal with it in the spring.
Click to expand...

Moeller md, if new hybrids don't breakdown and they have to rip the soil to bury it, do you think that would be part of a sustainable agriculture system?
 
UGUIDE said:
Moeller md, if new hybrids don't breakdown and they have to rip the soil to bury it, do you think that would be part of a sustainable agriculture system?
Click to expand...

Whatever makes BT resistant to bugs makes it harder to decompose and return it's goodies to the soil. Is this good or bad from a sustainability standpoint I do not now. But it is a draw back from the production side. I would also say that BT corn seems to require more and deeper tillage. Is this good for sustainability? Not saying BT is bad it increases yields and the bottom line so I would continue to use it.
 
UGUIDE said:
I would have thought the cellulosic tech was further along than that so that kinda answers my question. I don't see the switchgrass programs start going until they can run volume.
Click to expand...

Well, you know Chris... those "experts" are often wrong. They're like meteorologists with their "30% chance of rain" forecasts. We all know the price of oil drives the demand for alternative energy sources, so who can say for sure?

I think I just disagreed with myself. Maybe I shoulda gone into politics. :D
 
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