Numbers not near what we expected

vaturkey

New member
Quick report from a Virginian who drove 1,500 miles (one-way) to experience some pheasant and quail hunting. First caveat, is I love Kansas. Have bird hunted there before (two years ago) and had a great time and got into plenty of pheasants. Have also hunted turkey's there on three other occasions, so I obviously I'm willing to put the time in what I think is a great state.

Given the above previous positive experiences, three of us set out for Kansas from Virginia on New Years day. Our destination was Great Bend and I'd located a house to stay in not far from Cheyenne Bottoms. With a house, we could do our own cooking and not have to have three guys and 4 dogs cramped into a hotel room(s).

Arrived well armed, with WIHA maps and a Kansas Gazetter that we had marked probably a 100 WIHA's on. Used that system two years ago and it worked great. Might I add, that two years ago we also came in January as well.

First afternoon (Jan 2nd) we decided to hit some WIHA's close to CB. Weather very cold and windy. Found some decent looking WIHA's and some not so good looking. After road scouting to look for good cover with adjoining food sources out we went. An hour later we were done with the first cover with no birds seen and with three very disinterested dogs (two springers, one golden). We decided then to call it a day since we were pretty exhausted from the 22 hour plus drive to get there.

Next morning, hope sprung eternal and we decided to head SW from Great Bend and hit some WIHA's around Kinsley. We had had some real good luck at that particular WIHA two years ago. Got up before dawn and headed out and arrived at that WIHA at about 730. Got there and fortunately (or so we thought) no one was there. Turned loose the dogs and set up one person as a blocker. This WIHA had great thick nasty CRP, food source across the road and a creekbed running thru it. Working hard dogs, put up one hen. We hunted it hard and put up one rooster that flushed just out of range. I fired at it twice. Little did we know then, that that would be the only shots taken as roosters for the entire trip :eek:

Went from there to another WIHA not far away with great amounts of plum thickets and CRP both. Hit that real hard and were rewarded by watching one rooster fly off probably 200 yards away from us.

We then WIHA hopped for the rest of the day. Only putting up two hens and then two additional roosters at distance. No quail moved the entire day.

The following day we hunted not far from Rush. Once again, we found some lousy WIHA's (no food, no cover) and some great looking WIHA's (everything you could dream off). The problem was I think two fold. One, all the good looking WIHA's had been pounded to death. Lots of empty shells, lots of pheasant feathers laying to next cars were parked. Ton's of bird dog tracks in the snow. We also determined that unlike two years ago, bird numbers just weren't near what they were then. Back then, we had flushes of up to 50 birds on multiple occasions. Wasn't happening this time for sure.

The following day (this past Monday) we hit it hard again and with the same lack of results. We even hunted Cheyenne Bottoms. Flushed a few pheasants (far out of range) and once again determined if any place looked good it had already been hammered by hunters.

Before we had left from Virginia, I had also made a contact with someone local who said they had some private land for us to hunt. We were supposed to meet them at their place of work on Tuesday morning and get directions to the private land. Unfortunately when we got to where they worked, they had called in that they had a sick child and wouldn't be in that day. Given our demeanor at that point and the fact that they were calling for snow and heavy winds to move into the area we decided enough was enough and to head for home.

If anyone is planning a trip out that way, I'd go in with open eyes. I think if we had a pile of pointing dogs, we would certainly of done better. Our dogs aren't really set up for 100 acre fields of CRP. Also, if we had gone earlier we might have done better as well. Also, we determined a part of the problem (besides less bird numbers) was hunting pressure appeared to be way up. Seems as if every bird hunter who wants to chase pheasant is in Kansas with ND, SD and Iowa locked up tight with ice and snow.

Wanted to post our experiences and maybe prevent someone who is thinking about making a long trip to only hunt WIHA's to give it some careful thought.

PS. I think next year I'll stick with Maine Grouse and Woodcock. If there are no birds, I can at least eat some jumbo lobsters. :)
 
Vaturkey, it sounds to me like you approached the trip like a true sportsman. You did everything "by the book" and had lousy luck. Unfortunately, that's been the story for many folks this year.

It's my OPINION, that while the WIHA is a fantastic program, it has a few issues. The biggest issue I see is that the program has not expanded in 3 years. What that means is that everybody (locals and out of staters) that have hunted Kansas for a couple of years, know/learn where the best spots are. For example, you have hunted here once before, and went back to the "great" spots you've hunted before. Unfortunately, at this point in the program, everybody else knows their great spots too. Each year, more folks find out about those spots. The result is that in a few years those spots are known to many, many hunters.

In the early days of WIHA, it's all I hunted. Most locals considered it "public land" and wouldn't hunt it. In the late 90's (just after it's inception), it was absolutely unbelievable. The program was increasing so rapidly that it was impossible to see all the spots in a given area. Also, word hadn't gotten out and the pressure was very, very light. I really "expected" to see birds on any WIHA that had even close to decent habitat. Those days are long gone.

At this point in the program, it appears that without an increase in acreage or improvement in existing habitat, hunts will continue to degrade. While hunter numbers are decreasing, the available habitat is decreasing at a faster rate. This, coupled with marginal bird numbers in some years, can make for a very difficult hunt.

Sorry you had a poor hunt, however I think this story is going to become more common if the program doesn't become more aggressive with regard to getting more land area and/or paying for land based on habitat or habitat improvements.

Personally, I'm having the best year in the last 20. If I stated how many days this year I've moved 10 coveys or more....it would sound like a "big fish" story. On the other hand, I've only hunted two WIHA's. The rest has been on private ground.

By the way, I'm not bashing the program, or saying it's run it's course, it's the best of its' kind of any state. I'm simply saying that the program is having a hard time handling the pressure given the available good habitat.

Best of luck,

Point!
 
I have been hunting some WIHA in Rush County and the birds have been very finicky. One day it was 15 degrees and wind blowing 35mph. found some cattails and all the birds were there. Probably about 50 or so roosters and hens. Killed 2 that day before I froze to death. Went back one day after we had gotten an inch and a half of snow knowing those birds were gonna be back in those cattails on that WIHA. But I only saw 2 roosters and 2 hens walking threw the grass on my way to the thick cat tails. There wasn't a single bird in that stuff. I walked around that pasture for about 2 hours. I know they are there and I gave them plenty of time to settle down before I hunted it again. They just move around so much its hard to pin them down. They are out there just finding them can be a challenge
 
We also hunted around Kinsley this year and have for the past 7-8 years. By far this was the worst hunting we have ever experienced. However, I saw more milo stubble this year than any other year. In my opinion the milo stubble is far superior cover than corn stubble. Therefore, I think the birds were more dispersed which probably impacted our success.
 
Don't feel bad about not finding birds in N Edwards county vaturkey. I've hunted the Kinsley area for about 12 years now. 95% of the land I hunt down there is private. I've had very poor luck in that area this season, but I've found birds everywhere else and lots of them. The pressure on our KS WIHAs has increased significantly. Hopefully the state will view this as an opportunity to grow the program through the additional revenue. Best of luck to you if you should choose to return in the future. Most years will yeild good results in the areas you hunted, just not so much this year.
 
I was one of the three guys that traveled from Va for this hunt. I can say that it did not diminish my enthusiam for Kansas hunting one bit. I was humbled a bit by the experience but I am still enthusiastic about returning.
There are some real nice folks in Kansas and we really appreciated the hospitality.
BTW; wow are there a lot of geese around Great Bend !
 
Vaturkey, that is a long ass drive. Did you get contact info on that private ground? Make sure to drop them a line or letter 2 or so times so you can hunt next time out. Make some more contacts and then you do not have to soley rely on the public. I have been out there 4 times this season and now have 4 great farms to hunt. I still have some good walk in spots for back-up, but the birds are sure flushing wild. I hope to put a stop to that next weekend with a few different tactics. Good luck and don't let that trip stop you from coming in the future. All the dumb birds have been eliminated.:thumbsup:
 
I don't know what the pressure is elsewhere, but the GB area has sure seen a very big increase in the past 4 years. This makes hunting very difficult on the WIHA's. I assume that some of that pressure is due to forum scouting. The GB area has been mentioned very often in the past with high remarks.
 
I don't know what the pressure is elsewhere, but the GB area has sure seen a very big increase in the past 4 years. This makes hunting very difficult on the WIHA's. I assume that some of that pressure is due to forum scouting. The GB area has been mentioned very often in the past with high remarks.

Internet scouting may have some to do with it, but I think hunter #'s are increasing for KS all the way across the board. Internet scouting plays a role, but I don't think it is entirely to blame. After this year, there will be a push toward the Hill City area. There are already a lot of people hunting Rush county, despite the fact that there are just as many birds in the surrounding counties (well, maybe not so much directly S this year). Yes, internet scouting has added hunters to some areas. You can see people paths EVERYWHERE in the good WIHA tracts of Rush county. After awhile, internet scouters will be spread all over the state.

Something else to consider is GB's location when you're talking about pressure. That's where I'd go if I lived in C or E OK or TX or even SE KS to minimize drive time. Some folks also consider public hunting land other than WIHA when choosing where to go. CB looks like a lot of public land to choose from until you get there.
 
. . . Lots of empty shells . . .

. . . without an increase in acreage or improvement in existing habitat, hunts will continue to degrade.


Related phenomena or uncorrelated non-issue?

Do you think not making at least an effort to police up empties (some thrown from pumps and semis will hide from us) encourages or discourages landowners from re-upping land into the WIHA program? Just have to wonder if what kind of guests we are affects whether we are invited back to the party.
 
I don't think there's a correlation.....yet. Right now it's money. Currently, the private sector is simply paying more than the state is willing to pay. That isn't to say that the WIHA program hasn't lost any ground due to "slob" hunting. I'm sure it has, but what I hear landowners talk about is money.

Personally I pickup every shell, but it's easy for me as I shoot an O/U. While it's great to leave the area with no sign of anybody being there, the real reason I do so is because I really don't want anybody to know the area has been hunted. In addition, bird cleaning is never done in an area that I've found birds. Reasoning? Why broadcast a good area and feed the predators?

Riddle: Why did the pheasant cross the road?
Answer: To get to private land with less pressure.

Best of luck to all

Point!
 
Quality can really be an issue with some WIHA. I like the idea of upping the payout for landowners that make habitat improvements, or giving more money for higher quality acres. I totally agree that the best WIHAs get pounded pretty hard.

Speaking of the Kinsley area, I noticed that two of my favorite quarters were unenrolled this year. Talk about a disappointment when we pulled up there this season! Maybe that's where all the birds were hiding...:rolleyes:
 
You hunted the same areas we hunt every opening weekend. For the first time, I'm considering stopping our annual trip up there. We've been 10 years in a row. Can't rely on the forecast anymore and he's right about the WIHA not being expanded. It gets harder and harder to find good WIHA, especially early. Heck, I'm only driving up from Tulsa. Can't imagine Virginia. It's still fun to watch the dogs, but it's definitely not what it was even a few years ago. Glad I got to experience it ('04, '05, 07). I agree about the first few years of the WIHA. I was there in '97. Me and my two buddies had some private land to hunt and figured the WIHA was just "public" We started hunting it about noon on opening day. WOW!!!! It was fantastic. Much of it is not that way anymore.
 
Cat, that is a good question. I know of one landowner who did not re-up, because he caught them chasing coyotes in their vehicle. I do notice that after deer season there are alot of tire tracks across the CRP, that were not there a week earlier. I have a strong suspicion they are mostly locals, by the license plates I've seen. Still does'nt make it right. Do your best to clean up after yourself and if you see some hulls in the road, take time to stop and pick them up as well.:mad:
 
My $.2 worth...

I agree w/ the above statements that Kansas has more hunting pressure and that the WIHA program needs some improvement...more money for landowners and a increase in WIHA properties.

Kansas has more pressure for several reasons...

1. Public access...ie WIHA hunting... opportunities in other states are diminishing at best.

2. Good bird numbers...Here in Kentucky our Quail numbers are very low...albiet the KDFWR is currently working to improve this.

3. Fall upland bird reports...When hunters accross the nation here of 25 year "high" pheasant counts...they come a running!

4. Long season Nov. thru Jan. and liberal bag limits.

5. Most important: Kansas is a special place!
The locals are good, solid folk who invite you into their homes after a day of hunting their farms.


I live in Kentucky...and most of the land I hunt in KS is private...

Take some time, make phone calls, knock on doors and learn the area you wish to hunt...it will pay off!!
 
If landowners disenroll from WIHA because of coyote hunters driving their trucks on their ground then they should probably look at their neighbors. I have seen coyote hunters that are definitley locals drive all over ground that is posted up the ying and the yang and I am just amazed how they act like because they are hunting coyotes they can drive and trespass wherever they want.

I would also guess that not a single non-resident hunting license is sold in the state of Kansas to somebody coming to just hunt coyotes on WIHA access. I am not trying to slam on coyote hunters as a group in general I am just saying that folks coming to pheasant hunt in Kansas are probably not the ones driving vehicles all over the WIHA ground.
 
If landowners disenroll from WIHA because of coyote hunters driving their trucks on their ground then they should probably look at their neighbors. I have seen coyote hunters that are definitley locals drive all over ground that is posted up the ying and the yang and I am just amazed how they act like because they are hunting coyotes they can drive and trespass wherever they want.

I would also guess that not a single non-resident hunting license is sold in the state of Kansas to somebody coming to just hunt coyotes on WIHA access. I am not trying to slam on coyote hunters as a group in general I am just saying that folks coming to pheasant hunt in Kansas are probably not the ones driving vehicles all over the WIHA ground.

Being a lifelong Kansan, I can tell you that the folks doing this are probably residents. There are plenty of coyotes in other states. I've never heard anyone say, "I'd sure like to get in on a good KS coyote hunt" before. There have always been problems with idiots driving across fields, cutting fences, starting pastures on fire, etc. They are ALWAYS coyote hunters. I can't stand them and I wish there was a way to stop them. Some folks predator hunt w/ a call and I have no problem with that. Most of the folks I grew up around like to drive 40mph through fields shooting out the window. Often, they are drunk, but that is beside the point I suppose. Truth is, idiots drive through KS pastures shooting coyotes just like the locals in the Dakotas drive through the fields shooting deer. There are stupid people that show nobody respect in every state
 
Yep I agree

Quality can really be an issue with some WIHA. I like the idea of upping the payout for landowners that make habitat improvements, or giving more money for higher quality acres. I totally agree that the best WIHAs get pounded pretty hard.

Speaking of the Kinsley area, I noticed that two of my favorite quarters were unenrolled this year. Talk about a disappointment when we pulled up there this season! Maybe that's where all the birds were hiding...:rolleyes:


Two of the WIHA's we hunted had been removed. Both of those held birds two years ago. Also, one area we hunted with great CRP etc. was covered in tire tracks through it in various places. Looks almost like someone tried to drive the pheasants out of the thick stuff by driving either trucks or 4-wheeler's through it. All the above was near Kinsley.
 
YEP, probably trying to jump deer. I do not know who in their right mind would drive in a field to push or flush pheasants. I think it is preety common for deer and wonder if KDWP even cares sometimes....?????
 
Whoa now. before you start bashing KDWP lets think about it. How many times have you been checked for license and bag limit? I know that everytime I see a warden I get checked. Now I haven't been checked in 2 years but I'm not out that often. But the 10 Days I've been out this year I haven't seen one. Kansas is a big state especially when its hunting season. During fishing wardens are concentrated on the lakes and even then you can go awhile with out getting checked. So before you say KDWP doesn't care, think about how much area they have to cover. And if you do see stuff like that report it. It makes their jobs a whole lot easier in finding those violators and it shows that the rest of us do care about our state and are willing to protect its resources.
 
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