Need help. Don't know where to begin

A

AndyJohnson

New member
Hello,

My name is Andy as you may have guessed from my handle. I live in rural western NE in prime pheasant country. My wife and I recently obtained a 5 yo yellow lab mix. He is a big dog. Almost 100lbs and named Duke. Duke was almost sent back to the shelter for the second time in his life because he barked alot. He always lived in small backyards and was rarely walked. Fortunately our good friends and Duke's former neighbor was able to tell us about this and we decided to take him. Duke has been great now that he has rabbits and birds to chase on thousands of acres (not even close to all ours).

Long story turned slightly shorter, I always have my shot gun with me walking around our property and as it turns out, with zero training, Duke is a HUNTING MACHINE!!! The second day we had him, I was walking from my shop to my house and kicked up two pheasants. I shot them both and before I could do anything, Duke was there with the liveliest of the two in his mouth. He brought it right back to me and there where no teeth marks. Ever since then he has been a hunting junky.

I think with a little training he could be a great hunting dog. Already I can point to thick brush and say,"get the birds" and he will go diving in. Here are the problems:

1-Once he gets the scent, he is impossible to turn around so he ends up flushing birds WAY out. I need to be able to keep him close and stay on pheasants, not rabbits or any other animal.

2-If he flushes a bird and I don't shoot it, he will keep running after it for a long, long ways or until I catch him.

3-He has been catching a lot of pheasants. Three in the last two days. Is that a bird issue or a dog issue?

Thanks for your help. I really appreciate it.

Andy Johnson
 
I hunt pointing dogs so cannot help with flushers. However, my rescue GSP was a mental case. My goal was to make him part of my pack. Let him come in the house. Gentle but firm. Never have to worry about being alone again. Give him lots of work, retrieving. His problem was he did not know how to track me on a hunt. I was proud of him last week. He hunted well with me in tall grass. Did not have to call him.

Sounds like you have a good dog.
 
#1 & #2. Two training tools you can use to stop this chasing is a check cord and an e-collar. Try putting him on a check cord to keep him back. He has to learn his chasing is not acceptable behavior. You need to work in a command along with the check cord so he learns that when you say the command he stops. Once he learns this you can start taking him off the check cord and then enforce your command with an e-collar.

#3. I wouldn't worry about your dog catching birds. You are going to get that with any flushing dog and tight sitting birds. Think of it this way, no bird shot to worry about when you are eating the birds. :)

Good luck.
 
#2 problem: typical puppy response to bird in flight. If the dog doesn't understand "come" or" no" you will continue to have problems.

#3 problem: any dog will grab a bird in the snow or heavy cover. Kick it out if you can...

#1 problem: same answer as #2. You don't want the dog to chase anything! This means birds in the yard, rabbits, squirrels.
 
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I let my spaniel give chase for about three "bounds." By then bird is either falling or I've given her one "peep" on the whistle (sit command), and she watches them fly off. This off season I will work to steady her on all flushes but this is where we're at now.

I think you should really work on "sit" and "here." When he does this despite the temptation, you'll be in control. Then in the offseason you can work on patterning.

When you say he's catching birds, is that with you hunting or when he's just roaming about?
 
Thanks for the help.

"I let my spaniel give chase for about three "bounds." "

Mnaj-I was wondering about that.

So how do you keep a dog from chasing animals but still keep them hunting animals? Do you ever find that you discipline them for chasing and they end up not trailing and flushing?
 
Be careful with the e collar until you get him trained a bit. The dog needs to learn the word no. I would use the check cord first then the collar. Don't just break it out while hunting. It will be easier to teach a dog with a strong prey drive to stop chase on no, then it is to teach a dog to have a prey drive. I have a Lab with incredible prey drive but he will stop on no. A flusher is no good working at 75yards or more. Once we did collar conditioning, he was taught to check back on tone. He knows two beeps means he is at his range. Without this he would hunt in the next county.
 
Buddy and Max - both would be in the next county!

Reining the dog in, to hunt with range - a full time job. Takes a lot of patience and training. I'm still training a 5-year Golden, at home and in the field. I'm continually calling the dog off if he's bolting after a deer, rabbit, squirrel or any other critter.

A very loud NO seems to work most of the time, reinforced with the e-collar, if the dog doesn't want to listen - has listening issues.
 
sounds like a real nice prospect to me just needs some training

you start in your yard not in the field and definitely not around birds

you will need a whistle, ecollar and a check cord get the ecollar and put it on him every time you train him but leave the transmitter in the box, you wont need it until the later stages of training

first you have to teach him to HUP ( sit on command) in the yard not near birds, you do this on a leash first then on a 25 foot check cord

with a verbal command first, then when he is doing that reliably you add the whistle prior to the voice command "one toot-hup"

he will begin to anticipate the "hup" after the whistle and begin to sit as soon as he hears the "toot"

your release command will be a verbal OK for now

now you overlay the ecollar over the check cord with the check cord on him one "toot" if he doesnt sit right away check then mild stim him until he sits when he sits stop the stim, that teaches him how to turn it off.

Now work him off the leash not around birds and get him to reliably hup on the one toot and stim him immediately if he doesn't comply, turn it off when he does.

Now you have him understanding he has to sit on on toot and release on the verbal "OK"

Next you add a "toot toot" prior to "OK" again in the yard until he begins to anticipate the "toot toot" means he can go. when that happens you can drop the verbal OK and just release on the "toot toot"

recall should be here or come whatever you like again in the yard stim him on constant if he doesnt come and stop stiming him immediately when he heads toward you so he learns how to turn it off.

next just like the other commands you add more toots prior to the command on recall I just keep tooting until he comes toward me with the constant stim on and turn it off as soon as he heads my way. Repetition will teach him if you keep tooting he is supposed to come back in.

Do all this in your yard and drill him when you go for walks never around birds until he is very obedient and understands why he is getting a correction with the ecollar. This is important because you dont want him to believe he is getting corrected for going after birds.


catching pheasants means he has a hard fush and thats a very good thing do not try and correct that

trash braking is different
if he chases a rabbit or a deer you break that by saying absolutely nothing and shocking him at a high level, never use any command shut up, and let him associate the rabbit or deer with the very hard shock and he will quit chasing them on his own

sounds like a great dog to me, one more thing never let a dog run loose unsupervised that turns them into self hunters and ruins them
 
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AndyJohnson said:
Thanks for the help.

"I let my spaniel give chase for about three "bounds." "

Mnaj-I was wondering about that.

So how do you keep a dog from chasing animals but still keep them hunting animals? Do you ever find that you discipline them for chasing and they end up not trailing and flushing?
Click to expand...

Hey Andy, sorry for the late response. Holiday and family kept me occupied. With my dogs I worry very little about losing prey drive. They have spent a lot of time finding and chasing birds, plus they had a strong introduction to birds. All of this has convinced me their prey drive is outstanding.

Secondly, obedience started in the yard, away from birds, then transferred into the field (without birds), and finally was transferred to birds. At that point they learned obedience is a must and birds are fun, and the two concepts do not contradict.

On unwanted game it's a different story. I "trash break" my dogs on all fur. And if you think they can't tell the difference, you're not giving your dog enough credit.
 
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