Nebraska VS Kansas farmer incentives?

Brad6260

Brad6260

New member
With Nebraska having such a poor public walk in program and so few public acres available and Kansas having such a successful and widespread program I am curious what Kansas did to get so many acres enrolled in the various programs by the private landowners to allow public access?

I assume it comes down to money. I see where Nebraska is offering some new per acre incentives to the landowner but I would like to know how one state compares to the other in what is offered to the landowner that allows public access?

Then comes the obvious debate that asks if the "tourist/sportsman's" dollars brought into Kansas at all levels, from state taxes and license fees to the local cafe selling a cup of coffee as a result of these incentives are seen as a worthwhile return on their investment,time and hassles from the standpoint of the farmer/landowner where it all must start from?

I hunted Nebraska for over a decade and consider myself a very considerate and conscientious hunter but the prevailing attitude there became "your not welcome here" and there is no where for you to hunt so go away.
 
Nebraska used to be a great place to hunt, i grew up there and door knocked my way on to tons of ground, great hunting, but that was many, many years ago. now the ground is farmed fence row to fence row, cover is rare and the game and fish folks have no clue how to run a program......i wouldn't waste my time hunting there, although there are a few exceptions, as always.
 
Brad...Great Topic!!

I grew up in Nebraska also...Birds were plentiful and access was not a problem.....however I was a local

We moved away in 1990......hunting access became a problem as I was no longer local. I also noticed the "unfriendly" attitude from some (not all) landowners and locals in the shops and restaurants....have not hunted my home state in over 15 years!

NE may not be as keen or aggressive on tourism marketing as other hunting states.....with the exception of Omaha (world series and such)...

Case in point.....when traveling north on I-29 from KC.....there are no milage signs for Omaha......only Council Bluffs, IA.....

Troy (prairie drifter) can shed some light on what the KDWP pays landowners per acre for WIHA...
 
I'm sorry guys, but I work on the public side of the division and WIHA is handled by the private side. However, here is my take. First, it takes wanting to. It takes dedicating a significant part of the budget toward the project and staff as well. We have about 18 private land biologists across the state and another 6-12 biotechs that work at least part time on WIHA. There are significant demands on the agency lawyers dealing with contracts. You have to set up the capability to build the atlas. It took a large advertising effort to put the program before landowners, public meetings and private face-to-face's to help landowners understand and accept the program. We started with less than 10,000 acres in the first year and 1 biotech and a couple of biologists working on it. It grew from there. I don't know if legislated $ were needed along the way. I'm sure we made sacrifices in other areas to put this program together. It's not perfect, but many other states have either copied or are studying to copy it. You will see that we often have to accept some acres that have minimal value to hunters when dealing with landowners. We usually only pay for the useable acres. I'll stop here because I'm speculating to some extent. To explain the Wildlife division, we have public land biologists (wildlife area managers) that take care of lands we own or lease with management capabilities. We also work with private landowners through WIHA or directly on their improving their land's wildlife habitat using private land biologists. We pretty much have the same training and pedigree, but we public land guys also carry and do LE. We tend to get much more of the construction/maintenance/facility management end of the paradigm with also more "hands on" habitat management. The private side is significantly more "advisory", providing the expertise while the owner provides the labor. The private land guys work a lot with the federal programs like CRP, Wetland Reserve, buffers, etc.
 
It's a darn shame. I started going out to the Pawnee City area about 1985 and it's still some of my best bird hunting memories bar none.
Oddly enough one of the things that sticks in my mind as things began to deteriorate was a resentment not towards Kansas but toward South Dakota where the stories of big money leases were coming out of.
Our group asked farmers we knew about leasing land at what we thought was fair for non millionaires and there seemed to be hard feelings that the thousands that were being paid to big Dakota operations were not to be had for average Nebraska CRP lands.
I think we offered $300-$500 for six of us to lease 6 or 7 hundred acres of crp and milo for a week and were told no.
 
Drifter that's great info.

Do you think that the overall feelings are positive by

a) the farmer landowner that has participating in these programs?

b) the small rural communities that get all sorts of us aliens rolling into the area to shoot birds?
 
Brad, I really think that the program is fairly well received. There are parts of the state where leasing pretty much trumps WIHA. That may be a location thing mostly. WIHA may well have expedited the leasing as landowners were unfamiliar with the aspect of leasing before WIHA. There is plenty of room better etiquette by many who use the land. Respecting a reasonable spatial distance to other hunters or residences and tending to trash, livestock, parking, and other social aspects of being a guest anywhere could go far to ensure that "WE" are well received.
 
Brad6260 said:
Drifter that's great info.

Do you think that the overall feelings are positive by

a) the farmer landowner that has participating in these programs?

b) the small rural communities that get all sorts of us aliens rolling into the area to shoot birds?
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Depends on the location of the WIHA. Look at the WIHA map - no sizeable acreages or hardly any parcels period on the eastern part of the state or within 2 hours of the 2 big population centers. Most of its crap thats leased near KC or Wichita. Nothing to speak of in the SE part of the state - My hypothesis is we have the Missourians, Razorbacks and Texicans to thank for leasing all the deer hunting ground in that part and shutting any WIHA down. Same can be said for anything within 2 hours of Wichita, (however lots of locals from Wichita, KC and Texans to blame for that leasing in the pursuit of horns)

Go further west, theres big chunks enrolled but most of its not primo and last year was hunted way too much at least the areas I went too. Ive got all the atlases going back to the programs inception. You can see its deterioation.

Definitely not what it was. Good hunts on WIHA are less and less due to pressure and garbage land being enrolled. I think KS uses it more as a marketing tool now.

When I say garbage - Im talking bird wise. Most of it could hold some deer but I dont know about you, I dont have enough time to burn to scout CRP. It'd be blind luck to get a Hog out of a WIHA deer wise or lots and lots of scouting and time.

I dont like the direction the program has went nor do I like the lack or regulations to keep guides or pay to hunt operations off of it.

Myself and the majority of other hunters all support a special stamp or permit that would need to be purchased to hunt WIHA to help hire extra support staff and increase the # of acres and quality of acres enrolled. I think the state has tried to expand the program with the same dollars they had near its beginnings and it shows in the quality of the lands enrolled and their locations.


Respecting a reasonable spatial distance to other hunters or residences
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Ditto what Troy said. Ive been getting more and more ticked the last couple of years by people with blatant disrespect in regards to jumping in a field when we might already be hunting it and charging directly at us. Way too much of that crap that goes on anymore. So much so I dont look to hunt a WIHA until after deer season.
 
KsHusker said:
Ditto what Troy said. Ive been getting more and more ticked the last couple of years by people with blatant disrespect in regards to jumping in a field when we might already be hunting it and charging directly at us. Way too much of that crap that goes on anymore. So much so I dont look to hunt a WIHA until after deer season.
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Hunting etiquette has gone downhill significantly as of late. Other hunters walked onto land I was already hunting twice last year. I held my tongue, but already decided this year it's going to be a different story.

I just wonder where this mentality is coming from, as these were middle aged men doing this. Why have I not seen this behavior before?

Another aspect that I don't think has been mentioned here regarding the subject topic is the amount of CRP contracts in Kansas. It is my understanding (and I may be wrong) that Kansas ranks second in terms of states receiving federal money for conservation programs such as CRP. I think that has a direct correlation with the successful WIHA program.
 
The greatest difference I see between KS and SD is that, in SD, it is 85% or better state land. Most of the private land enrolled is partially harvested corn, with a little buffer strip, it is rear to se a half or quarter block of CRP. The down side is the mandatory non tox on state land, but with the amount of land available it is well worth the additional cost.

Ditto on common curtsey and land respect, I also seen it go down hill as of late, must be the sign of the times. Probably a lot has to do with lack of good foundation, and poor or no mentoring.
I was hunting with a guy from work a while back, he was taken back when I asked him to pick up his empty shells. You thought that I had two heads or asked him for a million $ from the look he gave me.
 
"Ditto on common curtsey and land respect, I also seen it go down hill as of late, must be the sign of the times. Probably a lot has to do with lack of good foundation, and poor or no mentoring."

I'll second that. Getting out of hand especially in SD on opening weekend (goat rope anybody).
 
Shane, several points. This is a voluntary program. Cooperators have been both lost and gained. We only lease land that is offered voluntarily. We have no leverage to go our and pursue what we would like, and probably wouldn't want it if we could.

As for an upland habitat stamp, it has been reviewed at commission meetings and I really can't tell you why it hasn't been taken on. There may be a problem with federal PR funding, where any more we bring in has to be taken off of what we already draw down. If that's a case, it would be to no financial advantage to us to impose another cost.

In regards to more help, if you've listened to the new Governor recently, that's not the direction he is taking government. Smaller is his goal. I'm sure if a grassroots effort was taken on, something could get done to make it bigger or better. In fact, Kansas has received several million $ of grant money to invest in the program in the next few years. I think that there is info on that on our web site. We still need voluntary offerings, and that is a problem in the east due to the level of leasing for deer. Where deer numbers and permit numbers are less in western Kansas, we have a more competitive capability to work with land owners.
 
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