KEOutdoors
Well-known member
Here was my last bird of the season. You can see how easy the shots have been, and how its impossible to lose a cripple hunting timber draws...
Lost birds
- Thread starter AKSkeeter
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BRITTMAN
Well-known member
Good dog work (experience level ... dog it self), good handling (or letting the dog do its thing), and tenacity (do not give up easily ... keep on looking) varies between hunters.
Cover plays an important role too ... making the decision to pull the trigger when the bird will drop into a thick quagmire is one ... some pull the trigger every time ... others refrain. Same can be said for distance.
This plays into lost birds and rate of recovery ...
Cover plays an important role too ... making the decision to pull the trigger when the bird will drop into a thick quagmire is one ... some pull the trigger every time ... others refrain. Same can be said for distance.
This plays into lost birds and rate of recovery ...
4shot
Well-known member
…and when it lands in a bean field.
benelli-banger
Well-known member
Many valid points, but also, the more birds you shoot, the more scenarios present that are unusual. Discipline probably biggest factor in reducing cripples…shooting skill, dog competence, shot selection…all controllable. Many guys don’t practice shooting, nor do they get themselve’s or dogs in shape. I love my early prairie
hunting in September for many reasons, including the workout that it provides, but my dogs and I walk daily starting in April anyway.
hunting in September for many reasons, including the workout that it provides, but my dogs and I walk daily starting in April anyway.
Bob Peters
Well-known member
I agree with you on an example of a guy saying he lost 10 birds in a week, they're not doing something right(obviously). The ballistics dept. is a whole topic unto itself, but someone who has put no time/effort into selecting proper shells/gun combination can wound a lot of birds(I found a 1 1/8oz. #6 steel hull freshly dropped on Iowa public land last Friday
). Odds are the more you hunt, the better your chance of losing a bird, it's all about the sample size. Expand your view of pheasant hunting and look not just on where and how you hunt, but how others do as well. Remy talks about hunting switch grass so thick he can barely see the dog 10 feet away. Many on this board are in cattail country, and although always looking for goldilocks cattails, not too thin not too thick, not too short not too tall, there are times hunters, due to lack of hunting ground options, the presence of a healthy population of roosters, or masochism, choose to wade into mire's so thick and gnarly it begs the imagination why some would even attempt this. Shot selection obviously changes with cover type for the ethical hunter. Regardless, there are times when the bird isn't completely covered up by the pattern. Birds are winged, or hit too far back, etc. No one I've ever met tries to do this, it's just part of hunting. There are times when one walks all day, and finally the dog gets on a scent, and the bird flushes just a bit wild, you have a second or two to make a 45 yard quartering shot. Dead in the air is best, with a bird dog being your insurance policy. You can't expect people to shoot perfect every time, that's not the real world. You can expect them to have an appropriate load and be a well practiced shot, and make every attempt to recover the bird. A hunter walking thin linear cover in Eastern Iowa shooting a dozen roosters a year will have different experiences than a hunter further to the west chasing birds on large tracts of CRP and wetlands. Lastly, the experience of the hunter and dog plays a role. Try and remember your first season or two hunting, versus where you are at now? If you meet a new hunter with a young pup, and they lost a few birds, don't chastise them, try and give them good advice and a word of encouragement. Success doesn't happen overnight and everyone comes to hunting with different experience levels, mentors or lack thereof, etc. etc.benelli-banger
Well-known member
Bottom line, dogs are the hero’s, and the source of the greatest joys while hunting!
I lost a quail last year that we actually saw and almost had hands on. The dogs found it, it took off running, the dogs and I chased, and it disappeared. After many minutes of additional searching we discovered a small animal burrow, probably no bigger in diameter than a softball. The dogs and I were both convinced that the quail had run down into the burrow. At the time it seemed very unusual. I reached in as far as I dared, but didn't really want to find whatever had made the burrow in the first place.
Then earlier this year I read something from Dale Rollins at Rolling Plains Quail Research Ranch that documented coveys using burrows to escape avian predators.
That made me remember an incident from 5-6 years ago when a blocker watched a covey of quail run 20-30 yards from a milo field to a clump of brush/weeds no bigger in diameter than a tractor tire. The space in between was basically open gravel. He waited for us, the walkers, to get there and then we tried to flush the quail from the clump. Nothing. The clump was completely surrounded by more open gravel and the blocker swore that he would have seen the birds leave it, if they had done so. In the middle of clump, a couple of critter burrows...
Maybe I should add a shovel to my kit...
Then earlier this year I read something from Dale Rollins at Rolling Plains Quail Research Ranch that documented coveys using burrows to escape avian predators.
That made me remember an incident from 5-6 years ago when a blocker watched a covey of quail run 20-30 yards from a milo field to a clump of brush/weeds no bigger in diameter than a tractor tire. The space in between was basically open gravel. He waited for us, the walkers, to get there and then we tried to flush the quail from the clump. Nothing. The clump was completely surrounded by more open gravel and the blocker swore that he would have seen the birds leave it, if they had done so. In the middle of clump, a couple of critter burrows...
Maybe I should add a shovel to my kit...
KEOutdoors
Well-known member
Thats my point... I didnt lose any birds. I dont understand how that is so hard for others to understand?
The dozen I shot in thick waist high crp, and the maybe 10 I dropped in cattail/blue stem along cattle ponds were also dead and easily recovered by the lab. All the rest were wide open crop fields bordering timber or along creeks.
What will also blow someone on here's mind is that my dog found all of my hunting partners birds too. Except for one duck where he took the shot I told him not to, and dropped it in 8' tall reeds in the marsh. Couldn't even walk to it, dog tried and I dont think he ever made it to where the bird landed.
KEOutdoors
Well-known member
I agree with you on an example of a guy saying he lost 10 birds in a week, they're not doing something right(obviously). The ballistics dept. is a whole topic unto itself, but someone who has put no time/effort into selecting proper shells/gun combination can wound a lot of birds(I found a 1 1/8oz. #6 steel hull freshly dropped on Iowa public land last Friday
I agree with most of what you said, except for the guy taking a 45yd quartering shots. Thats how they are getting the cripples. You arent holding a good pattern at 45yds with lead shot unless you are shooting a Full choke, and not many do that. Desperation shots like that is the problem, and the result of a cripple, miss, or gimped bird is the direct result of your bad choice in shouldering the gun.. and it will happen more times than not. You seem to suggest this is the norm? That is a shot nobody should be taking unless you are choked and ready for it with tungsten shot. Nickel plated lead 5s have barely the required penetration for 45yds and thats not for a backbone shot. If I grabbed everyone replying here's standard gun/choke/load and shot a 40yd pattern (let alone 45) i bet they are not acceptable results. Most simply dont choke for 40+ because we expect 25-30yd shots and choke for those (ic-mod usually).
Hunter responsibility and only taking good shots is a huge part of hunting. Anyone ever shouldering a gun at a 45yd going away rooster should be expecting to lose that bird
From my 21 years of pheasant hunting, I have found the thicker the cover the tighter the birds hold and the closer the shots. Which equals better hits, less cripples, and easier marks on down birds for the dogs to find. I have hunted every cover you mentioned, i chose not to anymore because I dont have the drive that bad. I would rather meander a fence line or creek. Often these open sparse cover places provide the most wild flushed and long shot opportunities, I simply do not take them. Shot selection is part of hunting. I would rather come home with 1 bird than shoot at 6 to get my 3.
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benelli-banger
Well-known member
I’m not a disbeliever. If I was going to go online and lie, it wouldn’t be about pheasant recovery rates!
A HA! Got ya! You DID lose a bird!
Frankly, I'm jealous of folks' lack of lost birds. I didn't lose any grouse or woodcock, but I lost more Pheasants than I should have. Both of my dogs had never hunted let alone smelled a pheasant before this year. The puppy had no idea what she was doing for the first month of our season. That plays a large role. And being that this year was the first time I hunted pheasants as an adult, I sorely underestimated how tough these birds were, and their ability to run. I lost two downed birds after the first 2 weeks of the season. The first two weeks I lost 4. Its a learning curve, and I know better for next year.
KEOutdoors
Well-known member
A HA! Got ya! You DID lose a bird!
Frankly, I'm jealous of folks' lack of lost birds. I didn't lose any grouse or woodcock, but I lost more Pheasants than I should have. Both of my dogs had never hunted let alone smelled a pheasant before this year. The puppy had no idea what she was doing for the first month of our season. That plays a large role. And being that this year was the first time I hunted pheasants as an adult, I sorely underestimated how tough these birds were, and their ability to run. I lost two downed birds after the first 2 weeks of the season. The first two weeks I lost 4. Its a learning curve, and I know better for next year.
No I didnt? My buddy did. Read my last part on shot selection. Take stupid shots, expect stupid results in his case.
Yes I know. I was poking fun since it was your dpg.
KEOutdoors
Well-known member
A HA! Got ya! You DID lose a bird!
Frankly, I'm jealous of folks' lack of lost birds. I didn't lose any grouse or woodcock, but I lost more Pheasants than I should have. Both of my dogs had never hunted let alone smelled a pheasant before this year. The puppy had no idea what she was doing for the first month of our season. That plays a large role. And being that this year was the first time I hunted pheasants as an adult, I sorely underestimated how tough these birds were, and their ability to run. I lost two downed birds after the first 2 weeks of the season. The first two weeks I lost 4. Its a learning curve, and I know better for next year.
Exactly right on underestimating their toughness. They are, imo, a very easy bird to hit as they sound like a helicopter getting up and fly in a straight line- but they are difficult to kill, lots of feathers and not a big vital area. Tight patterns and shooting at birds in range is the key. They arent extremely tough birds in regards to penetration aside from needing to shoot through the backbone on most shots, but tough to get multiple vital hits with a bad pattern for the range they are shooting which is where guys probably struggle the most. If you drop em all dead, your dog will find em all.
What has helped me the most was of course patterning my gun, but second making sure i hit the body... Sounds obvious but if you shoot the tail or a wing you arent killing it and those moving parts often catch the eye first especially as a new hunter. Nobody is asking for tips but what helped me the most with these things is to ignore the tail and pull up looking at the neck. I swing to the beak and pull the trigger on almost every shot. Rarely lead a bird under 35yds, they arent flying as fast as they look. A barrel cam is a good investment too, you can see where you aimed and hit/missed. My two misses this year were right to the left of a bird as it turned right when I shot, and i tried to head snipe a bird at about 10 yards and missed right in front by about 6". I got them both on camera and could see what I did wrong.
LittleBigHorn22
Well-known member
@KEOutdoors From all the posts, what I'm more curious now is how many birds you lost years ago when you were starting out? You say you don't understand how people lose birds, but unless you are saying you have never lost any in your lifetime, then you really should understand.
I think you don't understand how privileged you are to be able to hunt 400+ birds in a season. And I would hope that you have gotten way way better at hunting than those that maybe chase 10 a season. But the key is to not discourage those who do cripple simply because they are inexperienced. As long as everyone is trying to cripple less than they have before, I think that's all that we can really do without knowing their situation.
I think you don't understand how privileged you are to be able to hunt 400+ birds in a season. And I would hope that you have gotten way way better at hunting than those that maybe chase 10 a season. But the key is to not discourage those who do cripple simply because they are inexperienced. As long as everyone is trying to cripple less than they have before, I think that's all that we can really do without knowing their situation.
KEOutdoors
Well-known member
Agree 100%.
I was taught to not take long shots, and honestly i grew up shooting 12ga 1 1/4 or 1 3/8 5s over english setters and GSPs on extremely easy shots... More times than not had to wait for the bird to get out a ways before shooting it. I cant remember success rate back 20 years ago, but we didnt kill many birds then overall and I do not remember many cripples.. a few blown to pieces birds unfortunately. The wild pheasants are just now starting to come back in strong numbers in areas I can hunt. We would hunt opener on public which provided shots a child with a 410 could hit, and then mostly went to preserves which provided birds you could get with a frog gig. Wasnt worthwhile to hunt the rest of the season around here. Between then it was road hunting which I did not enjoy. Basically seeing a bird run into a ditch, dropping a hat out the window, then loading up and walking back onto that bird. They flushed at 10 feet and was like harvesting meat more than hunting. We had plenty of hunts with wild flushes and 40yd opportunities, but Id get my a@@ beat if I ever tried that shot around my Father.
I would never say I am perfect.. i just severely limit my shots so the odds end up in my favor. Was taught that from the start, and have always hunted that way.
I do remember my first bird though. It flushed at my feet and i shot it so close that i couldn't see through all the feathers. Was my 870 youth ,20ga with 1oz activ 5s. My dad was mad but proud at the same time.
benelli-banger
Well-known member
I would say that I’m 100% committed to NEVER shooting hens…like all of us here. I’m not quite that conscientious as it relates to losing a rooster…I’m not gonna lie and say I don’t take longer shots at times. Frankly, I make so many long shots, it’s not that big of a deal. Straight aways I have made an effort to pass on, especially past a certain distance, or, in certain types of cover. I hunt with 2 labs, usually at the same time…we routinely recover others’ birds…at times, others’ dogs recover my birds. I search for reasonably long periods to find cripples…20-30 minutes…maybe that’s not enough, but we head in a logical direction if the bird isn’t found, and hope that it’s recovered as we continue the hunt. I feel like I’m an ethical hunter, and I can go to sleep each night on a hunting trip feeling like I’ve treated my quarry with respect…others may have different standards…while hunting, cripples are talked about insofar as can we recover them? Where? When? Give me the details. When the hunt is over, and we’re relaxing and all of that, not too much discussion about birds shot, recovered or not. I hunt mostly private land in SD, it’s generally good land, and bird#’s are decent to good to great..hunting 25 days, +/-, with party hunting, allows a fair # of birds being shot. Some are lost. Not happy about that, in fact, it’s a bummer. I’m always doing what I can to minimize them, and I’m pretty happy with my results. I’ve hunted the same geography for 30 years, and have hunted with lots of other guys, some who are experienced, committed, excellent hunters…have never hunted with anyone that hasn’t lost birds, not that that means we can’t improve. Again, cheers to those who have made this a top priority, it at least gets us all thinking about how we can get better.
Wind River
Well-known member
KEO, if you are only able to execute 100% kill shots, God bless you for that. You should run 200 straight at 16yd trap given the controlled situation.
No bulky clothes, no element of surprise, no misplaced footing, no sun in my eyes, shooting eye starts wandering, dead birds flying off, sudden wind kicked up, you know the excuses
No bulky clothes, no element of surprise, no misplaced footing, no sun in my eyes, shooting eye starts wandering, dead birds flying off, sudden wind kicked up, you know the excuses
gimruis
Well-known member
Not all of them are.
I've been on outings where a poorly trained one ruined the hunt, more than once.
benelli-banger
Well-known member
I‘m only referring to mine…seeing a dog appear with a bird, especially a tough recovery, at a great distance…it doesn’t get any better than that. For me. YMMV.
Obviously there are dumbasses out there, some of whom have dogs….doesn’t change what gives me my greatest joy…they just don’t get invited back. Very few over the years….thankfully. 
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