Any one know about AKC Lab trials. I am told that birds are tossed up in the air to shoot. Is this true? The trials we run in you have to actualy have a dog go out and physicaly find the birds flush and retrieve them. I find it hard to believe this could be true.
Are you refering to Field Trials or Hunt tests? Either way the dogs are tested or scored on there ability to mark, handle, and retreive (not flush as these are retreiver trials). Obediance and discpline are also very important. So yes birds are launched into the air using a Zinger Winger or something similar. The only way a consistent test can happen is through such methods. Depending on UKC, AKC, or NAHRA (as well as level entered) the number of actual fliers shot varies. All classes except juniors or started require cold blinds as well.
HRC has a upland test, I am not familar with how it is ran. I believe HRC may allow non retreiver sporting breeds to run in the entry level class.
That would be field trials (retreiver) and yes the birds are mechanically launched. It would be a bit difficult to have a dog physically flush a bird than get it to fly in the proper direction for a couple hundred yards before being shot. Fliers shot at a trial can be as short as 30 yards or over 300 yards on land or water or a combination. The rather simple retrieve resulting from a bird flushed by the dog would not be near enough of a challange to ever eliminate any dog at this level. Many series at a trial will have a quad retrieve (dog must mark all 4 birds than retrieve them in the order dictated by the handler). After completing the quad the dog will be sent on a cold blind (dog does not see bird go down) usually the bLind will be longer than the marks and right up the middle of all the old falls. You are judged on the ability of the dog to hold the line he was casted on as well as how often he needs to be handled to accomplish the retrieve. Blinds sometimes exceed 400 yards with angled water entry and exit, side hills, and "poison" birds set just off the line to distract the dog. Oh yea and when you finish all that your dog is required to sit peacefully at your side off leash while the next dog runs. After all 50 plus dogs are ran a percentage will be eliminated and the second series will be ran and so on till the field set.
Field trials are for excellent dogs with excellent training. Even the best trained field dog would not succeed at this level. These dogs are traind from day one with this goal in mind. And yea a lot of them are hunted regularly. (maybe not around alligators)
LOL, OK, it just seems forign to me since the dogs we run have to be tested on finding the bird. One would think they could have a land series that the dogs prove nose as well. Use of wind, & finds are real good at eliminating dogs. Then the Launcher deal could still be used as is. Any way I was just curious. It's none of my business just wanted to know if they were tested on finding game on there own in an upland hunting situation. Thanks for the clarification. The Fellows over the pond were mocking it so I just wanted to know.
LOL, OK, it just seems forign to me since the dogs we run have to be tested on finding the bird. One would think they could have a land series that the dogs prove nose as well. Use of wind, & finds are real good at eliminating dogs. Then the Launcher deal could still be used as is. Any way I was just curious. It's none of my business just wanted to know if they were tested on finding game on there own in an upland hunting situation. Thanks for the clarification. The Fellows over the pond were mocking it so I just wanted to know.
Ha, we do that in the APLA American Pointing Lab Assoc. We run marks on land and water, then the ones that do good go to the upland field, have to find at least 3 birds out of 5 most of the time, (depending on conditions) 20 minutes in the field, birds are shot and retrieved, you get 2 phez and 3 chakar,
That would be fun to see at a AKC event, LOL They dont think of a lab as a upland dog , just a ol retriever,,,,,,,:cheers: Even the Labrador Club says so,,,, :laugh: :laugh:
Trust me these dogs can use their nose! After running a couple hundred yards of cover the eyes only get them to area and the nose finishes it.
The British field trials are totally different than ours (not better or worse). Heck their style of hunting is very different as well. Last issue of gun dog magazine has an article on English trials.
Unfortunately the British movement in the USA is led by Robert Milner of duck hill kennels. Mr milners marketing plan is not is talk about the virtues of British dogs and trials but to rip on American labs and trials. I went to a Milner seminar 2 years ago after the first hour of him ripping on dogs like mine I would have walked out except for the $300 I paid to attend. Funny part was after the demo and handler portion on the second day 7 of the 13 people attending asked me who trained my dog...... Mr Milner was a good trainer of dolphins for the navy but I am not sure that qualifys him to tear into us over dogged Americans. If you read the gun dog article there is a picture of a black lab jumping on his handler that is mr Milner (he would have failed a us hunt test right there). I love hunting and training my dogs i also enjoy hunt tests but i really am tired of the british movements condescending attitude! wow I better get off my soap box.
Ps I do hope to run hrc upland tests in the future. After I get all
My pups basics done I will solid up his steady to flushand give it ago.
Any one know about AKC Lab trials. I am told that birds are tossed up in the air to shoot. Is this true? The trials we run in you have to actualy have a dog go out and physicaly find the birds flush and retrieve them. I find it hard to believe this could be true.
I seen setups that include 600yrd marks,500yrd blinds becareful what you say about these fine dogs they are every bit as marvelous as our spaniels maybe more so, there are more of them
The 2012 Nation amature will start in Northern michigan i believe, the 13 or 20th of June
Ive seen that stuf on TV. I was just wondering if they physicaly 1/4 a field and find and flush and shoot any game. But my question is answered any how. Thanks guys
I seen setups that include 600yrd marks,500yrd blinds becareful what you say about these fine dogs they are every bit as marvelous as our spaniels maybe more so, there are more of them
The 2012 Nation amature will start in Northern michigan i believe, the 13 or 20th of June
Great link. This shows what I so poorly and inaccurately described.
If you can train a dog to do this stuff training to quarter and flush birds is pretty simple. Please don't take that as shot at any breed as it is not ment that way at all. These tests are not really fair or realistic but the dogs have become so good that to find a winner they must be.
A big running pointer will find more birds a hot rod spanial will flush more these guys will retrieve more, but they can all do it at some level. That's the cool part we all can chose what we want.
If 100% make retrieves, how do they beat one another? What do you seperate them on, or do some fail retrieves? And Gatz, one more?, If you go pro in this can you go back to AM statis?
If 100% make retrieves, how do they beat one another? What do you seperate them on, or do some fail retrieves? And Gatz, one more?, If you go pro in this can you go back to AM statis?
Thats the crappy part, your dog may accomplish the retreive but enroute he may square a water entry slightly or may take a loopy line.......All these are deductions. On a blind your dog may need to be handled a bit more than the next dog etc. Poor line manners or lack of honor skills will also hurt your score. Usually are really long narrow channel swim with no cheating decides the winner. Being judged is tough as it never seems fair if your not the winner:cheers:
I don't know if you can return to AM status after turning Pro..... I doubt I will ever need to worry about that! The better I get at training the more I find out I have to learn
If 100% make retrieves, how do they beat one another? What do you seperate them on, or do some fail retrieves? And Gatz, one more?, If you go pro in this can you go back to AM statis?
Think of it as precision long distant problem solving. The more precise answer to the problem makes for the winner.
Think of it as carpenter that really pays attention to detail and builds fine cabinents, or the carpenter that just slaps boards together and calls it a box.
Style and momentum are very important the dog that looks comfident and powerful usually wins.
Once you go Pro in retriever trial game you're not going to back as an AM.
And like the spaniel game there would be process of annoucement and probation period that would have to be satisfied the rules of engagement to return to AM status
Right now you can't go back to AM status in ESS trials. Some would like to because they have done no training for years. Which I could see sucking. Seems wrong to chase a dream career. Then find out it just don't pay the bills. Only to have to be stuck as a pro your whole life. Some would like it changed for us, that if u have say a 2 year period not receiving $ to train dogs. Then you could, say provided you only run your personal dogs there after, in Open Or AM, while an AM again.
Just wondered how you dealt with that sort of thing.
Any one know about AKC Lab trials. I am told that birds are tossed up in the air to shoot. Is this true? The trials we run in you have to actualy have a dog go out and physicaly find the birds flush and retrieve them. I find it hard to believe this could be true.
All of the above... I prefer pheasant hunting, the dogs prefer duck hunting so we do both! I also have gone through therapy dog certifcation. Before my father passed away he loved it when I brought my old dog to the nurseing home (heck all the residents did).
The Master Amature National is just starting the 8th series today and 25 dogs remain and from what I have heard their is no leader yet.
