Lab guys sorry but....

LittleBigHorn22 said:
When I first got a pointer after growing up on labs, that was by far the hardest thing do in the transition. Letting them past 20 yards felt like a sin because it normally means a ruined hunt with a flusher. I was calling my dog back every cast and it was horrible. Eventually got better about letting him do what he wanted (especially if he went really far to the side and not ahead). That's when you see how awesome it is. They run through ground 100+ yards away that you now don't have to go walk through and instead can go cover more ground elsewhere. And the true magic, when they lock up on point that far away. Just awesome.
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The thrill with pointing dogs for me is when they take a huge swing and pin down a bird that I would have never known was there in the first place. Huge advantage when hunting marginal ground or large tracts.
 
Munster927 said:
Yeah it just depends on the situation. I've let mine go before but I've been burned enough times that I stay close and my dogs have learned 40-60 yards is max range for how I like to hunt.
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I can do 50 yards. Hundreds of yards ahead I just can't wrap my head around.

Most of the pieces I hunt aren't even hundreds of yards long anyways. These are not open sprawling grasslands of the prairie that I am hunting.
 
Quailnerd said:
The thrill with pointing dogs for me is when they take a huge swing and pin down a bird that I would have never known was there in the first place. Huge advantage when hunting marginal ground or large tracts.
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There's a lot of thrills I can think of with pointing dogs. One of my best memories, my two dogs had done a loop ahead of me and came back directly towards me (wind at my back). And older dog pointed with my younger (first season) honoring. We had pinned a hen and roaster directly between us. When I flushed the birds, they were very close together but one quick moment separated enough to hit the roaster. Younger dog then made the retrieve. It was such a precision execution that it's seared into my brain.

It's also hard to beat the thrill when a bird is clearly running and the dog is stopping and relocating multiple times as the creep along. It's like a jack n the box waiting to explode as you move slowly up. Such anticipation.
 
gimruis said:
I can do 50 yards. Hundreds of yards ahead I just can't wrap my head around.

Most of the pieces I hunt aren't even hundreds of yards long anyways. These are not open sprawling grasslands of the prairie that I am hunting.
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If your pointing dog is truly steady it’s fantastic.. I would say hundreds of yards side to side is better than hundreds ahead!
 
Quailnerd said:
If your pointing dog is truly steady it’s fantastic.. I would say hundreds of yards side to side is better than hundreds ahead!
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Exactly, in front of you is almost pointless because you were going to be walking into that anyways. My dogs typical pattern is 70-150 yards swings to the side and then when they come back they are only 30 yards in front of me. It changes if they are following scent though and then might be 100 yards in front, but that just means I should hustle up there because the birds are moving quick.
 
Only about have the time I shoot wild birds off point. If I’m in cover where I know there is birds I keep the dog in shooting range. Wild birds move so much and are jumpy, very seldom do I get a long steady point. Covering a lot of ground and moving so fast I feel he blows by birds. Doesn’t like thick cover or hunts it very methodically. My friends hunt labs. Setter hunts different. I would say we get same amount of birds. My setter hunts to cover, 100yrds out those moving birds would flush out of range.
 
I might be in the minority here but I will only tolerate my Griffon ranging 50 yards in any direction, no further. I do hunt all wild birds so perhaps that makes a difference. I invited a setter guy hunting quail and pheasants one time and that dog ruined what could have been a great three days of hunting. It was easily 300 yards from the guy and the quail that we were hunting were in pretty thin sage brush and would run as a covey and then fly about 100 yards then run again. That dog pushed every bird out of the county prior to anyone have a chance to get a shot at them. The only saving grace was that his dog came up lame after day two and we did well in his absence.

So, the key to success for me in these situations is to hunt fast enough and quiet enough to put pressure on the birds and get them to panic for minute or two so you can catch them and break up the covey. After you break up the big covey then you can expect smaller groups of birds and singles to hold. If a dog gets out as far as that setter those birds come up as a covey and you never get a shot.
 
Drew said:
I might be in the minority here but I will only tolerate my Griffon ranging 50 yards in any direction, no further. I do hunt all wild birds so perhaps that makes a difference. I invited a setter guy hunting quail and pheasants one time and that dog ruined what could have been a great three days of hunting. It was easily 300 yards from the guy and the quail that we were hunting were in pretty thin sage brush and would run as a covey and then fly about 100 yards then run again. That dog pushed every bird out of the county prior to anyone have a chance to get a shot at them. The only saving grace was that his dog came up lame after day two and we did well in his absence.

So, the key to success for me in these situations is to hunt fast enough and quiet enough to put pressure on the birds and get them to panic for minute or two so you can catch them and break up the covey. After you break up the big covey then you can expect smaller groups of birds and singles to hold. If a dog gets out as far as that setter those birds come up as a covey and you never get a shot.
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I don't think that had anything to do with range but the dog wasn't used to the birds. If your dog is at 50 yards and bumping birds, you're still not going to be able to shoot it as that's a 60+ yard shot each time.
 
The issue is that large coveys won't hold for very long, if I'm within 50 yards and the dog goes on point I can close the distance quickly enough before they bust and get a shot which breaks up the covey. A lone dog at 150 yards is the only thing that will see the covey and generally a lone dog will just push the covey........not break it up.

Keep in mind, this is my experience and I do think there are places where a long ranging dog has its place......just not where I hunt.
 
Drew said:
The issue is that large coveys won't hold for very long,
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I would challenge this a bit. Mostly because I noticed that I would make the same assumption a lot of time. It always seemed like birds don't hold long on a point, but so many of the times we are noting that when we are close by. I've heard it elsewhere too that it really is the hunters presence causing the flush even when we are further than the dog. Not that a dog can't end up busting or having the bird eventually move which makes it flush, but if you base it on what you see when the dog is close, you are changing the outcome by being there.

The two situations I know this doesn't work for is obvious moving birds (dog is pointing and relocating), or if you are on thin cover and the dog/birds see each other.
 
Perhaps you are correct. Perhaps it just makes me feel better being near the action spot.......near the dog.
 
And don't get me wrong I'm not really saying it's wrong to have a pointer that is closer or farther. For me I have one dog that ranges 40-70 yards typically and the other is 50-150. It ends up being awesome since I get action close by with one dog and some good finding and points done by the far dog. But my most shots come from the far dog as he finds more birds.

I more just advocate to let your dog do it's normal range, hunting gets less stressful if you do. And if that range is 50 yards, that's totally fine. A lot of fun hunting still.
 
It's interesting. All any of us REALLY know is what our own experiences have been. And those don't translate to gospel truths. I've only owned springers. One thing I can say is that once they've got a couple seasons under their collars, & we start to understand each other, rarely am I very surprised by a flush. Obviously I don't have the kind of advance notice a solid point gives you, but there's usually SOME indication the dog is birdy. It may last minutes. It may only last a second. But if you're paying attention & know your dog, you see it. A person can prepare & make a good shot pretty quickly under most circumstances. When I can see my dog, it's easy. When I CAN'T see him, odds are it's for a reason, & I better pay 1000% attention to the rustling cover & be ready. I rarely think, "Huh. I didn't expect to see a bird there."
 
A5 Sweet 16 said:
It's interesting. All any of us REALLY know is what our own experiences have been. And those don't translate to gospel truths. I've only owned springers. One thing I can say is that once they've got a couple seasons under their collars, & we start to understand each other, rarely am I very surprised by a flush. Obviously I don't have the kind of advance notice a solid point gives you, but there's usually SOME indication the dog is birdy. It may last minutes. It may only last a second. But if you're paying attention & know your dog, you see it. A person can prepare & make a good shot pretty quickly under most circumstances. When I can see my dog, it's easy. When I CAN'T see him, odds are it's for a reason, & I better pay 1000% attention to the rustling cover & be ready. I rarely think, "Huh. I didn't expect to see a bird there."
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I'll be honest, the advanced notice doesn't help as much as we want to believe. My dogs will be pointing and I'm still surprised at the flush. I think it's just because of the excitement of a flush no matter what.
 
I shoot the same not matter what, Poorly usually. On quail and chukar I am a 25% guy, pointed birds perhaps better and when I'm blocking I really suck at passing shots. I suck shooting behind a lab as I do a Griffon. Pheasants I shoot much better but they are large and slow.
 
Drew said:
The issue is that large coveys won't hold for very long, if I'm within 50 yards and the dog goes on point I can close the distance quickly enough before they bust and get a shot which breaks up the covey. A lone dog at 150 yards is the only thing that will see the covey and generally a lone dog will just push the covey........not break it up.

Keep in mind, this is my experience and I do think there are places where a long ranging dog has its place......just not where I hunt.
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I agree that a covey point from 150 yards and hold till shot is really hard to accomplish, honestly it’s rare. But in my eyes especially in a tough year that’s a covey I would have never found, and if they split on the flush it’s game on.
 
A5 Sweet 16 said:
It's interesting. All any of us REALLY know is what our own experiences have been. And those don't translate to gospel truths. I've only owned springers. One thing I can say is that once they've got a couple seasons under their collars, & we start to understand each other, rarely am I very surprised by a flush. Obviously I don't have the kind of advance notice a solid point gives you, but there's usually SOME indication the dog is birdy. It may last minutes. It may only last a second. But if you're paying attention & know your dog, you see it. A person can prepare & make a good shot pretty quickly under most circumstances. When I can see my dog, it's easy. When I CAN'T see him, odds are it's for a reason, & I better pay 1000% attention to the rustling cover & be ready. I rarely think, "Huh. I didn't expect to see a bird there."
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It's tough to say what the best part of hunting is, but I can't think of much better than when the action has been slow and suddenly the dog sniffs a really hot scent and goes full on birdy.
 
The best part for me is a great point, center punching that bird followed by a great retrieve.

Actually, the best part is when I hunt with this particular friend and a bird or birds come up between us and I kill the birds before he does. He is the only one that I do that to and it makes me laugh every time. It could be that he has done it to me on several occasions.
 
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