birddude
Well-known member
I wonder why someone hasn't tried to develop a hybrid of sorts that can be raised in captivity but have at least a better chance of survival.
just a thought to bring upland birds to the public
- Thread starter Ozark Quail Hunter
- Start date
Hutcho
Active member
I don't think that was the OPs idea. I think he was suggesting something more along the lines of like roaring river. Just keep releasing them with the intention of drawing in hunters, not so much to help population at all. Maybe I misunderstood him. If I'm right the idea sounds like fun, but not very productive. Maybe the money could be used for real habit projects on a larger scale
Chestle
Well-known member
South Dakota never had native pheasants. Now it's generally accepted as the #1 state for pheasant hunting in the US.
It all started with stocking pen raised birds:
"A. E. Cooper and E. L. Ebbert bought several pairs of pheasants from a Pennsylvania game farm in 1908 and introduced them in wooded sections of their farms south of Doland. Those pheasants fell victim to heavy snow that winter. Cooper and Ebbert’s efforts to release pheasants the next year met with success. https://www.sdhsf.org/news_events/m...er-2013-history-of-pheasants-in-south-dakota-"
No native pheasants in Iowa or Kansas either. Iowa stocking started around the same time as SD. Kansas first released 3000 birds in 1906. All the "good" pheasant states started their populations with pen raised birds.
Stocking doesn't work now. So what is the difference? IMO, the difference is the massive change in agricultural practices. There was a LOT of good cover in the early1900s that helped pheasants survive. Not nearly as much now and what's there probably isn't the quality that was available in 1900.
The bad news is agricultural practices aren't going to change back to leaving a lot of good survival cover.
It all started with stocking pen raised birds:
"A. E. Cooper and E. L. Ebbert bought several pairs of pheasants from a Pennsylvania game farm in 1908 and introduced them in wooded sections of their farms south of Doland. Those pheasants fell victim to heavy snow that winter. Cooper and Ebbert’s efforts to release pheasants the next year met with success. https://www.sdhsf.org/news_events/m...er-2013-history-of-pheasants-in-south-dakota-"
No native pheasants in Iowa or Kansas either. Iowa stocking started around the same time as SD. Kansas first released 3000 birds in 1906. All the "good" pheasant states started their populations with pen raised birds.
Stocking doesn't work now. So what is the difference? IMO, the difference is the massive change in agricultural practices. There was a LOT of good cover in the early1900s that helped pheasants survive. Not nearly as much now and what's there probably isn't the quality that was available in 1900.
The bad news is agricultural practices aren't going to change back to leaving a lot of good survival cover.
gimruis
Well-known member
Technically no one did because they originated in China.
Chestle
Well-known member
Exactly. So it's clear pen raised pheasants can survive and propagate into a population of literally millions. IF habitat conditions are right.
Proven by the fact that no US midwest pheasant state had a native population of pheasants.
I seriously doubt habitat conditions will ever be right again.
Proven by the fact that no US midwest pheasant state had a native population of pheasants.
I seriously doubt habitat conditions will ever be right again.
gimruis
Well-known member
I agree. The best we can do is preserve what we currently have.
I disagree. Look at Iowa. It was world class pheasant hunting, then was terrible for a long time. Now, it is good hunting once again.
Why? Because the amount of habitat in Iowa has dramatically increased in recent years. That’s really what it boils down to. Farming practices have little to do with it. If you increase the amount of habitat, you will increase the amount of birds, and vice versa.
People who say it will “never come back”, are being too nearsighted, IMO. They said that in Iowa for many years, and now look at them. Things change, and can change fast. I’m no lefty (quite the contrary), but with the whole “green” push, I see in increase in habitat over the coming decades, and not a decrease. No one was concerned about providing wildlife habitat in the early 1900’s. Lots of folks are today.
That said, I admit that I’m an eternal optimist, and we will just have to see what happens in the years to come. I’m young, so I can wait.
birddude
Well-known member
Sure, habitat, weather and grain markets will cause Bird #s to ebb and tide. But hoping for Iowa to resurrect some (as I recall) 250 million acers of C.R.P. is optimistic to say the least.
gimruis
Well-known member
You'd have to be delusional to think that Iowa is going to have as much upland habitat as it used to. Just 20 years ago, they harvested a million rooster/season. That aint happening again.
CRP is a federal program. It can change with the drop of a hat, as we’ve seen. Maybe more CRP will come along (or maybe not)? Maybe some other program will emerge? No one knows.
What’s gets me is when people say “sell your dogs, sell your guns, birds are never coming back”. Frankly put, they don’t know that. Who knows what things will look like 10, 20, 30 years down the road.
Never said that, but things have definitely gotten better.
Something to hope for, anyhow. Who knows? 20 years from now, they may again.
gimruis
Well-known member
Perhaps. I think its much more likely to slowly get worse than improve. Got to have some hope though.
PheasantWhisperer
Member
That's a great way to look at it. I hope you are right! I've been alive long enough to see bird numbers be Good, Bad, O.K, Bad, then ok again. If you find the habitat usually there are birds or at least signs of em. Hopefully the habitat continues on the upswing. If CRP isn't the answer, there are several other programs out there these days.
I remember when we started hunting in central South Dakota back in 2003. Lots of birds! Then, from 2005 through 2012, they were so plentiful (wild ones, too!) that it was hard to believe--in the side ditches, on the hay bales, sitting on fence posts, being hit on the highway...We hunted ducks on the Missouri in the a.m., secure in the knowledge that there were so many birds, we could break off the duck hunt, eat lunch, get back out at 1:30 or so, and still collect limits. Then came the very lean years. We may or may not see that superabundance again--never say never--but the good news is, we don't HAVE to see that number of birds to have a good shoot. We just have to hunt for enough birds, in range, to have a good day. A limit every day? Maybe, maybe not, but if the dog and I get a few fair chances, that should be good enough. We can't let "perfect" be the enemy of the "good".
Absolutely. I will admit that I’m young enough that I never got to hunt the glory years for pheasants, in any state. I did go up to South Dakota for several years to snow goose hunt in the spring starting in ~2007. Holy cow! The pheasants we saw up there.
Today, I do almost all of my hunting here in Kansas. Is it like the “good old days”? From what I hear from others, no. That said, I still get in to plenty of birds, and have a great time doing it.
Chestle
Well-known member
My comment refers to the habitat being right enough to allow the survival and further propagation of stocked birds.
As I said, every pheasant in the US traces its lineage back to a bird stocking if one goes back far enough. Those birds made it and further propagated in the habitat that was available at that time. I seriously doubt we will see that kind of habitat ever again.