Is Bismuth Shot really more effective than Steel?

[John Singer]

It's the off season, let's have a discussion.

First, let me qualify. I hunt strictly with nontoxic shot. I have for several years now.

I have been using steel for waterfowl hunting since before the national ban on lead shot.

I pheasant hunt a number of State and Federal properties where nontoxic shot is required.

A couple of years ago, I started using bismuth for pheasants. I found it to be quite effective. However, I do not think it is more effective than steel shot. Bismuth is definitely softer than steel, and it can safely be fired in old guns with a fixed full choke.

In my experience, it is not more effective and not worth the additional cost for either pheasant or waterfowl hunting.

Have any of you found bismuth to be more effective than steel?

 

[Bob Peters]

I've always thought it came down to the density of the shot material. Lots of pheasants have been taken with steel so it can work. The biggest question is the distance at which you plan to shoot birds, and even more important the distance at which you actually DO shoot birds. I'm not a numbers guy and usually don't think that way. A bird flushes and my mind rushes to "in range, long shot, or out of range." You can walk off birds I suppose and that helps some, but how much drift has happened after the bird was hit? The other big question is bore diameter. If you go to a subgauge steel starts to lose much appeal. All the guys trying to ethically kill a rooster with a 28 or a .410 aren't using steel, it just doesn't add up in most real hunting situations with wild birds. With steel necessitating larger pellets I think it best fits in with wild bird hunting in a 12 gauge. This allows a large enough payload to maintain pattern density at the ranges wild pheasants are most often taken. Now if I recall correctly John, you hunt with a 20ga. A 20 and steel shells wouldn't be my first choice, but honestly I have never hunted using said combo. I will definitely keep an open mind on this thread as I know I can learn from others. And I purposely did not bring up other metals as I did not want to veer this thread off track.

 

[John Singer]

Now if I recall correctly John, you hunt with a 20ga. A 20 and steel shells wouldn't be my first choice, but honestly I have never hunted using said combo. I will definitely keep an open mind on this thread as I know I can learn from others. And I purposely did not bring up other metals as I did not want to veer this thread off track.

Bob, I do most of my pheasant hunting and much of my duck hunting with a 16 SxS.

For pheasant, I shoot 7/8 oz loads of #4 steel in the right barrel and #3 steel in the left barrel. These are reloads with a published velocity of 1550 fps. Both barrels are choked about modified. Shooting either bismuth or steel, I see no difference in the the effectiveness at the distances that I shoot pheasants. Likely those distances are 20 to 35/40 yards.

 

[gimruis]

I've always thought it came down to the density of the shot material.

Same. Density plays a big role. Steel isn't as heavy or dense as bismuth or lead. When I used to waterfowl hunt I always did use steel shot because that was really the only option at the time. These other nontoxics were just hitting the market at a reasonable cost. If I still hunted ducks, I'd be willing to try them. I only hunt pheasants on private land nowadays so there are no shot restrictions.

 

[matto]

I can't say whether it's more effective than steel, but I'm pretty sure it's "at least as" effective. Maybe I'm just a bad or lazy bird cleaner, but to me Bismuth is worth the premium to avoid the chance of biting down on a steel #4. Likewise, I'll avoid all the tungsten products now available even though they are undeniably lethal. I think the now-discontinued Tungsten-Matrix stuff was soft enough for my teeth, but that's just by reputation. I've never used it and it's no longer available I believe.

 

[Hunt1GSP]

It depends….. I don’t like accidentally biting down on a steel pellet so I shoot bismuth.
I also have been shooting a 28 gauge the last few years and in my opinion steel doesn’t cut it in a small bore.
I have seen several posted studies that claim #2 steel is most effective on pheasants so depending on gauge not a lot of pellets. I think both are effective if used correctly.

 

[John Singer]

Oh, I certainly agree that bismuth is softer than steel and is much easier on the teeth.

I find the softness and fragility of bismuth to be problematic. When using bismuth, I often found fragments of shot in birds that I cleaned.

 

[John Singer]

I also have been shooting a 28 gauge the last few years and in my opinion steel doesn’t cut it in a small bore.

What size shot do you use in your 28 gauge?

What, in your experience, is the effective range?

 

[BrownDogsCan2]

My cousins grandson sent this to me the other day. He bought some for his grandpa. Not much for pheasants but maybe a good teal load. 50 bucks for the flat shipped.

 

[BrownDogsCan2]

I’m trying bismuth this year , I’m treating my 12 gauge like a 16. I’m trying to shoot lighter loads at lower velocities. From what I’ve read a lot of bismuth loads come in under weight, I know the Kent’s that I bought are. True to size but a 1/16 or so under weight.
The steel shells have I have cut open are dead on on weight and close on pellet count. I’ve never had a complaint with steel other than maybe it shooting a little tight at close range and loosing a few fringe hit birds before the pattern opens up.
Lead and steel are easy. Shoot your favorite load through a modified tube and you’re good to go. Bismuth and chokes seem more complicated. Or maybe I’m just making it that way.

 

[Hunt1GSP]

What size shot do you use in your 28 gauge?

What, in your experience, is the effective range?

I after trying several sizes I ended up using #6 early season. I switch to #5 on windy days or late season. I hunt over a pointer so try and keep shots under 30 yds. But have made a few longer shots.

 

[KEOutdoors]

On waterfowl, ive never seen birds get hit with steel like they do bismuth. Its night and day different, however several inedible birds due to damage from fracturing. Its a love hate relationship. It knocks the snot out of birds, especially the ones on the edge of decoying range (35-45yd) where steel is lacking.

Upland, meh. The few pheasant i have shot with them were stoned, as they always were with steel shot too when i hit them. I dont take shots beyond about 30-35yd with a vast majority being 25yd so i dont think its really needed. Now i imagine at that longer 35-45 range it would outshine steel just like with waterfowl. Pheasant are not as hard to kill as tough ducks are though, phez generally fly straight and you are usually shooting at a quartering away bird so easy to get the shot into vitals (less penetration needed) if your pattern is tight enough.

Where guys struggle with bismuth is that it patterns like junk. I get equivalent patterns for the most part shooting Full choke with bismuth and LM/IC with steel. XF choke with bismuth in some guns for a 40yd waterfowl pattern. If you call up shane carlson (carlsons chokes) he will recommend F or XF to start with as well. I have patterned about 10lbs of bismuth reloads plus factory shells, its almost always the same.. start with a LM or Mod choke and past 25 yards its unusable full of holes and blotchy. Patterning is extremely important with bismuth!

For normal over dog <35yd shooting with 12ga, no I dont think bismuth is any better than steel 3s. In sub gauge, the extra pellet count is probably worth the patterning and $$$ for bismuth but still not necessary until you get to 28/410.

 

[A5 Sweet 16]

Steel can be made just as effective as bismuth. But at longer ranges (35-50 yds), hunters are less likely to be shooting an appropriate steel load (large enough shot & corresponding heavy payload to accomplish adequate pattern density), making bismuth appear to be more effective.

I shoot bismuth most of the time, although I shoot lead when I can. Don't have problems achieving decent patterns. Not bothered by occasional fragments. That just means more energy was most likely transferred to the bird. Bismuth allows me to kill pheasants consistently with my 16 gauge guns up to 50 yards without damaging any of my barrels.

 

[Bob Peters]

I feel I can always learn something on this subject. If you can shoot where you live, or have a range close by where you can pattern I'm jealous. I'm sure you can get a good pattern with steel in many guns if you do your homework. I feel any metal with greater density is always an advantage. I feel steel cripples A LOT of birds. Not when someone like John is using it, who I'm assuming from his posts has hunted a lot and studied ballistics. This is more from hunters who don't study ballistics and shoot too small a shot size at too great a distance. This can happen with any shot material, but going back to basic density is most likely with steel. On top of all the patterning/ballistics in the world, there is also real world experience.

 

[John Singer]

I have got to state that I have seen trouble using steel for pheasant hunting.

Just a few seasons ago, we had several lost birds. We had two young men who were using Winchester 12 gauge Xpert #6 steel. They simply purchased #6 steel because the had heard that #6 shot was good for pheasants. When I discovered what they were using and got them to use larger shot, the problem went away.

Last season, a out 50 pheasants were taken over my dog. I think we lost a total of 3 birds that we knocked down but did not retrieve.

In 12 gauge, with an IC or MOD choke #3 or #2 steel is very effective. In my 16 gauge (or 20 gauge), smaller shot like #4 or #3 gives appropriate pattern density and penetration at 35 yards or less. I have no problem shooting at shorter distances than I would back when I used lead.

 

[John Singer]

Here is an article by Tom Roster, it looks like, for waterfowl, bismuth has a higher crippling rate than steel.

Is Steel Shot Effective? Here's What the Data Say After Decades of Testing

There are a lot of myths and misconceptions about steel shot. Expert Tom Roster sets the record straight after a lifetime of testing.

www.outdoorlife.com

 

[John Singer]

After I started this thread, I purchased a few boxes of bismuth shotshells for an terribly low price locally.

Also, on another website, I came across this company that has excellent prices and free shipping for bismuth shotshells.

12 ga 2 3/4" 1 1/4 oz Upland/Waterfowl Bismuth

EPIC SHOTHSHELL introduces the next generation of 12 gauge 2 3/4" High Tensile Bismuth shot for the discerning duck hunter who demands the absolute finest shot available.

epicshotshell.com

 

[KEOutdoors]

Here is an article by Tom Roster, it looks like, for waterfowl, bismuth has a higher crippling rate than steel.

Is Steel Shot Effective? Here's What the Data Say After Decades of Testing

There are a lot of myths and misconceptions about steel shot. Expert Tom Roster sets the record straight after a lifetime of testing.

www.outdoorlife.com

Ive read that one, and I dont understand it. It goes against almost everything i have seen with my own eyes in the field.

42% of birds hit were crippled?? I dont think I have had 2 crippled in the last 100 ducks ive shot with bismuth. They all are mangled and look like they got hit by a bus going 80mph. My best hunting buddy also shoots bismuth, i cant remember a cripple from him the last 2 years.. maybe a diver one day last year but im not sure if he had steel or bismuth in. We have cripples with steel, but usually immobile ones that just have head up still until dog can get to it.

Bismuth #3 necessary for pheasant? Every bismuth pheasant i have shot has been with 5s and 4s, none crippled and all were soft when picked up (destroyed back/breast bones).

85 pellets for ducks? Heck no.. i want at least 120-140 in a 30" circle. Maybe thats why all the crippling in his study.. my pheasant load this year has 255 in 30" circle, tss 9s.

I understand Tom has done this for a lifetime and knows what he is talking about... I just think his studies are a bit flawed and biased to the steel shot market. Basically his article says all their tested loads/shooters sucked (30-40% cripple rates), so steel shot is no worse than the rest and is in fact the best of the worst at 1 out of 3 birds being crippled. I would honest to God give up hunting if I had anywhere close to a 1:3-1:2 cripple rate, thats not ethical to continue doing... I would feel so bad for the birds.

 

[2point]

I am mostly a waterfowl hunter but have also shot a lot of upland. I have killed a lot of waterfowl with lead (back in the day), steel, and bismuth. My take is pretty simple. 3s for steel, 4s for bismuth, 5s for lead. I was reading epics web site and looks like they copied BOSS. There stinger shells, they call light magnums are 12 gauge 7/8 oz of shot at 1350 fs and come in 5s or 6s. They say they are good out to 60 yards. I guess with the right choke it could work, but I disagree.

With Boss shot shells I have found splintered shot with #5s and wasnt that impressed with them. Too many cripples. I have shot a few cases of Boss #4s and feel they perform much better. I have shot many cases of blue box federals 3 inch #3 steel also with great results. So is bismuth better than steel, probably physics doesn't lie. More weight more penetration, if they stay together. But how much better ??? What it really comes down to- you need to pattern your gun, become a better shot, and know your effective range. Then go with what works for you and your hunting style.

 

[John Singer]

Ive read that one, and I dont understand it. It goes against almost everything i have seen with my own eyes in the field.

42% of birds hit were crippled?? I dont think I have had 2 crippled in the last 100 ducks ive shot with bismuth. They all are mangled and look like they got hit by a bus going 80mph. My best hunting buddy also shoots bismuth, i cant remember a cripple from him the last 2 years.. maybe a diver one day last year but im not sure if he had steel or bismuth in. We have cripples with steel, but usually immobile ones that just have head up still until dog can get to it.

Bismuth #3 necessary for pheasant? Every bismuth pheasant i have shot has been with 5s and 4s, none crippled and all were soft when picked up (destroyed back/breast bones).

85 pellets for ducks? Heck no.. i want at least 120-140 in a 30" circle. Maybe thats why all the crippling in his study.. my pheasant load this year has 255 in 30" circle, tss 9s.

I understand Tom has done this for a lifetime and knows what he is talking about... I just think his studies are a bit flawed and biased to the steel shot market. Basically his article says all their tested loads/shooters sucked (30-40% cripple rates), so steel shot is no worse than the rest and is in fact the best of the worst at 1 out of 3 birds being crippled. I would honest to God give up hunting if I had anywhere close to a 1:3-1:2 cripple rate, thats not ethical to continue doing... I would feel so bad for the birds.

I do not disagree with much of your assessment of Roster's article.

When I read that I am reminded of waterfowl hunting on managed waterfowl areas in Michigan. Some hunters have zero clue regarding the effective range of a shotgun. Many will take shots at nearly any bird that they see regardless of the distance.

I recall a televised interview several years ago (after the lead ban), where one hunter claimed that he could shoot geese at up to 80 yards because he was using bismuth.

I suspect that Roster's recommended shot sizes are larger than many of us use because his studies include such hunters.

From my experience, #6,5,4 bismuth, or #2,3,4 steel are all effective for pheasants at distances out to 35 yards. The largest of those shot sizes effective to at least 40 yards when properly choked.