Got a question. It seems to me that there are more hunters out this year than I have ever seen. Interestingly though the KDWP activity survey shows that the number of hunters has dropped fairly consistently since the early 80's. In 1982 there were 195,600 hunters and last year there were 112,400. I have been going to Kansas for about 6 years now and it seems to get harder every year to find a place to hunt. Whether it is WIHA that is getting pounded or trying to find private land. How is this possible and where did the 200,000 hunters hunt in 82? Was the crowds a topic back then? I am one of the despised "out of state hunters" and I am actually starting to feel guilty about adding to the problem. I have talked with several "locals" that are totally frustrated that they live there and when hunting season comes along they also can't find a good place to hunt that hasn't been pounded. Just want to know how these numbers were accepted in the 80s.
Hunter numbers
- Thread starter jrice74
- Start date
only a pointer
Banned
go late in the year when every one is at home watching football and just go with you and a buddy or two and ask permission,if he lets you usually u can get on the neighbors as well but you have to work at it there not going to run you down and tell you to come on breakfest is waiting here also
Actually I probably didn't ask my question clearly. I wondered if those that have been hunting Kansas since the early 80s think hunter numbers or hunters in general are causing more problems now then they did then. I was interested to know if the "old timers" have noticed the decline in the number of hunters because it seems to me the numbers are increasing but the data says otherwise.
From 1978 to 1983 I hunted approximately 40 days a year in NC Kansas, centered around Mankato. The hunting was indescribable, concentrating on quail, we moved anywhere from 8 to 12 coveys a day, everyday, shot pheasants as a bonus bird, daily and posession limits were normal. I don't recall feeling that there were hunters everywhere, but I had access to spectacular private ground. I will tell you this there were a whale of a lot more birds of both species then, and we had no CRP, soil bank was expired, maybe the much larger bird numbers, especially quail, and the fact that the population of birds was spread out over a larger geographic area, off set the hunter numbers. for instance, SE Kansas used to be heaven for quail, now not worth the trip, NE Kansas was really good mixed bag pheasant and quail country, now very poor. A great number of hunters in the 70's and 80's were quail hunters, now almost all are pheasant hunters, by necessity, and compressed into 1/2 a state instead of the whole.
Thanks for the insight! Makes a lot of sense, the forecast talked up the area I hunt so the hunters congregate in this area. Million dollar question-why are the quail disappearing? My family talks about 10 covey days being the average where I live in Mo years ago, now 10 quail seen in a day is major news. I think the fescue is to blame here, but why are the gone in SE KS?
I try hard to see differences in the topography of the areas I have frequented for 40+ years. In southwest Missouri, I see less annual lespedeza than was around 30 years ago. Then there was less fescue, more varieties of grass, and every fenceline was grown up in annual lespedeza, every corner was a wild blackberry tangle, rabbits and quail everywhere. Same with Southeast Kansas, I don't think I ever hunted anything but Osage orange hedgerows, thick nice native grass edge on both sides, always birds. Lots of weedy pastures and open taller grass woodlots. Both had a lot of multiflora rose too! I have come to believe that the habitat is not as big a factor as the turn of spring weather. Seems like we haven't had a mellow spring in years. All the below normal spring temperatures, and cold rains just kill us. I think we can handle the winters it's the springs that are murderous. At least my opinion. It explains why we don't even have decent populations on wildlife areas at the beginning of the season.
HighBrass68
Banned
Good evening gents and happy Thanksgiving to all!
I like oldandnew's response to your question.
Originally from Nebraska, I grew up hunting during the 80's before CRP.
We hunted many family farms in Kansas and Nebraska. If you found habitat, there would be birds. 10-15 covey days were common. We hunted stubble fields, weedy fence rows, shelterbelts and old abandoned farm sites.
This year, bird numbers are way down in many states including eastern Nebraska and Iowa. Hence a another increase in Kansas pressure. Also with the web and word of mouth...Kansas and the WIHA program have become a focal point / destination for hunters everywhere.
The WIHA program is great....but anyone can hunt it.
I would incourage all hunters to promote habitat programs not only for Kansas but also your home state. Here in Kentucky quail are just begining to rebound after many years of serious decline.
I love hunting in Kansas both private and public ground.
Best wishes...
I like oldandnew's response to your question.
Originally from Nebraska, I grew up hunting during the 80's before CRP.
We hunted many family farms in Kansas and Nebraska. If you found habitat, there would be birds. 10-15 covey days were common. We hunted stubble fields, weedy fence rows, shelterbelts and old abandoned farm sites.
This year, bird numbers are way down in many states including eastern Nebraska and Iowa. Hence a another increase in Kansas pressure. Also with the web and word of mouth...Kansas and the WIHA program have become a focal point / destination for hunters everywhere.
The WIHA program is great....but anyone can hunt it.
I would incourage all hunters to promote habitat programs not only for Kansas but also your home state. Here in Kentucky quail are just begining to rebound after many years of serious decline.
I love hunting in Kansas both private and public ground.
Best wishes...
westksbowhunter
Well-known member
Deer hunting (specifically non-resident)has impacted Kansas in a horrible way and led to all the leasing of ground. When they opened it up to non residents leasing took over limiting the places we had permission to hunt to nothing. Our state has became commercialized and the tradition of hunting has been lost to the "how big a deer you can shoot" attitude. Purple paint is sickening and most of the leasing is by non-residents. I am not against non resident hunting as far as pheasant hunting goes, but when hunting shows continually advertise deer hunting in KS as the cream of the crop, nothing good will become of it. Our state poorly manages our deer population and every Tom, Dick, and Harry can get a tag. The all mighty dollar will ruin all.
Would you have the KDWP stop allowing nonresidents deer hunting privaliges? What about the economic impact non-residents have through not only license sells, but hotels, food, gas, snacks so forth. I know it cost me an arm and leg to go out west. If non-residents were denied licensce would the resident licensce fees be enough to support the WIHA program? I do agree the hunting shows are eventually going to be a contributor in making the Kansas deer heard as average as Missouri's is know. I am sick of seeing every stinking show killing monsters in western Kansas. One particular deer that was killed on video was killed close to a place I had access to. The Span deer I think. Next year guess what happened, the land had been leased for a ridiculous amount. Thanks Outdoor Channel
BleuBijou
Active member
I can honestly agree!! It is not as bad as Colo. yet, but it will get there!! Nothing we can do!!! There still are a few folks, no matter how money poor they are will not lease their ground for that purpose!!! They have a different moral and value I guess and I applaud them! Deer are a problem in Kansas now and most want rid of them. I didn't see many in the early 80's and now they are abundant in places you wouldn't see them ever!!!! Just got word of a accident involving my my friends hired hand I just met opening weekend. A 24 year old who was in an accident involving a deer and rolled 2 times , breaking his neck in 2 places. He is going to be o.k. but there is 2 people a year killed in that county a year from deer collisions !!!!! What do we do????
There will come a time when like those of us in Missouri, you'll wish for a unlimited year round season on the stinking whitetails, which are a pest here. Besides a whole lot of Kansans contributed to the deer harvest in Missouri over the years, turkeys too! Come shoot more.
westksbowhunter
Well-known member
Hunting was so much better before they opened up non-resident deer hunting. For both pheasants and deer. I could care less about the economic impact. That is exactly what has led to the demise in our hunting here in the first place. Our deer has not grown in recent years and our mule deer population shrinking. The quality of our deer is dwindling as well. Pretty soon it will all be leased then no one will hunt unless you lease yourself. Just a matter of time.
Again it brings me back to my original point. Before non-residents were allowed to hunt in Kansas there were more hunters. This is from the small game activity survey on the KDWP website. So if the hunters are concentrated in certain areas because the wildlife are concentrated in those areas whose fault is that? I can't see how non-residents could be causing a problem with the population when there are 100,000 less hunters in 2009 than in 1982. The daily bag in 1982 was 1.51 birds in 2009 it was 1.39. So in 82 twice as many hunters killed basically the same percentage wise as hunters in 2009. Tells me there are a lot less birds.
Sounds like a problem with the habitat to me. Don't bury your head in the sand and blame the easiest target and overlook the actual problems. Problems like corners being grazed, CRP being hayed when it gets dry, CRP contracts expiring. Also the land is being leased by the farmers, I admit they have the right and if I owned the same land and didn't hunt I would do the same thing, but us "out of staters" don't force landowners to take our money. Kansas has great resources and the majority of the farmers probably take wildlife into account while they run their business. But obviously hunter numbers are dropping on average year after year. Bird harvest drops with it. And the one you choose to blame is the out of state hunter! Why not blame the guys who bale their milo stalks, or mow their waterways, or hay their crp then let it sit in a barn or in a field unused, just because they were allowed to. Or maybe point some blame at these huge groups you see out there. The ones that are from Kansas and go around walking out corners or small fields and kill every rooster in that corner. Lets face it, the all mighty dollar has influenced everyone from the KDWP, to the landowner leasing land, to the outfitters charging an arm and a leg for a trespass fee, to the out of stater who has spent what they consider too much so they feel they own the state and trespass wherever they seem fit. We all can take some blame, but how do we get past that and organize together to stop the bleeding so our children will be able to enjoy this great activity.
Sounds like a problem with the habitat to me. Don't bury your head in the sand and blame the easiest target and overlook the actual problems. Problems like corners being grazed, CRP being hayed when it gets dry, CRP contracts expiring. Also the land is being leased by the farmers, I admit they have the right and if I owned the same land and didn't hunt I would do the same thing, but us "out of staters" don't force landowners to take our money. Kansas has great resources and the majority of the farmers probably take wildlife into account while they run their business. But obviously hunter numbers are dropping on average year after year. Bird harvest drops with it. And the one you choose to blame is the out of state hunter! Why not blame the guys who bale their milo stalks, or mow their waterways, or hay their crp then let it sit in a barn or in a field unused, just because they were allowed to. Or maybe point some blame at these huge groups you see out there. The ones that are from Kansas and go around walking out corners or small fields and kill every rooster in that corner. Lets face it, the all mighty dollar has influenced everyone from the KDWP, to the landowner leasing land, to the outfitters charging an arm and a leg for a trespass fee, to the out of stater who has spent what they consider too much so they feel they own the state and trespass wherever they seem fit. We all can take some blame, but how do we get past that and organize together to stop the bleeding so our children will be able to enjoy this great activity.
Fenway
Member
It's all about access, years ago they didn't need allot of public land most farmers and land owners didn't care if people hunted on there property, and allot more people still had some relatives or friend that still farmed. I remember when I first started hunting in the late 60 early 70s and hearing my Grandfather swearing and caring on about not being to hunt where ever he wanted anymore, and how he never even had to ask before. In WI as the deer numbers went up the hunting numbers did also, and it got harder to get on private land, WI does have huge amount of public land in the North and North Central, but like your areas they are crowed, and there are more deer in the southern part of the state. The better the hunting the more demand [hunters] the more the land gets leased or bought up by non-res, or who ever has money, so less access for more people in fewer areas. The SD, ND, hunters do allot of bitching about access, SD has allot of pay to hunt, ND has some of that, but mostly SW part of the state. In ND non-res. can't hunt the PLOTS the first week, and you do hear a bit of bitching about out of staters hogging the PLOTS, or causing good hunting land to go pay for play. The funny thing is the Locals where I go in W-ND complain about the guys coming from the eastern part of the state to crowd the areas. With the internet there are no secrets anymore so if something gets good, like your Deer hunting it will become a popular commodity and the people will try to take advantage of it. The only ones bitching about the hunters though are other hunters the locals, and businesses love the out of state money.
M. R. Byrd
Well-known member
I have a good number of thoughts on this issue, but not sufficient time for a reply at the moment. I will follow this as I can, and post when I have time to give justice to my thoughts.
M. R. Byrd
Well-known member
Bleu-
I wish I had the slide that the E. Kansas PF Rep uses in his presentation. Can't remember how far it goes back, but I believe back into at least the mid eighties.
The thing that has to be realized is that we are in a constant flux. The old days of farming are gone and it is being replaced by new ideas and just like our electronic gadgets(cameras, computers, televisions, gps, autos, trucks, tractors), what you bought today is outdated by the time you get it home. There are biologists such as the PF guys that do a good job at what they do and there are programs on the ground and more to come to help. The thing is, what can be done in this changing world to provide habitat for wildlife? "Stop the world, I want to get off" is not going to help our beloved pheasants.
Again, when I have the time I will try to and put in a concise matter my thoughts on my limited travels in areas known to have pheasant, bob white quail, scaled quail, lesser prairie chicken and turkey. Just rather busy at the moment.
And, BTW, Happy Thanksgiving to all and God Bless,
I wish I had the slide that the E. Kansas PF Rep uses in his presentation. Can't remember how far it goes back, but I believe back into at least the mid eighties.
The thing that has to be realized is that we are in a constant flux. The old days of farming are gone and it is being replaced by new ideas and just like our electronic gadgets(cameras, computers, televisions, gps, autos, trucks, tractors), what you bought today is outdated by the time you get it home. There are biologists such as the PF guys that do a good job at what they do and there are programs on the ground and more to come to help. The thing is, what can be done in this changing world to provide habitat for wildlife? "Stop the world, I want to get off" is not going to help our beloved pheasants.
Again, when I have the time I will try to and put in a concise matter my thoughts on my limited travels in areas known to have pheasant, bob white quail, scaled quail, lesser prairie chicken and turkey. Just rather busy at the moment.
And, BTW, Happy Thanksgiving to all and God Bless,
burp.......good turkey, sorry, i could not disagree more. where i hunt in SC and WC and SW Kansas, there are deer everywhere, i have seen big bucks standing in open fields, feeding in the evening during the middle of deer rifle season and so few deer hunters it is just amazing. i see way more bird hunters every season as compared to deer hunters and i also see very little leased land, not sure where you are hunting, but over about 6-8 counties i hunt there are virtually no deer hunters to speak of......and plenty of deer.
Happy Thanksgiving everyone, i will be out hunting for pheasants Sunday thru Tuesday next week!
kansasbrittany
Banned
burp.......good turkey, sorry, i could not disagree more. where i hunt in SC and WC and SW Kansas, there are deer everywhere, i have seen big bucks standing in open fields, feeding in the evening during the middle of deer rifle season and so few deer hunters it is just amazing. i see way more bird hunters every season as compared to deer hunters and i also see very little leased land, not sure where you are hunting, but over about 6-8 counties i hunt there are virtually no deer hunters to speak of......and plenty of deer.
Happy Thanksgiving everyone, i will be out hunting for pheasants Sunday thru Tuesday next week!
Ha, don't wanna highjack the thread here, but seeing this post this morning made me laugh. My dad called from W KS and said, "I wish as many of you guys that ask to come pheasant hunting would come and shoot these deer." Well, if I could hunt em' w/ my dogs I would. Either way, I've seen lots of great deer out W, but as you stated, there aren't so many hunters.