Chestle
Well-known member
+1. LOP particularly critical on stocks with a lot of drop.
How to Shoot a Bird
- Thread starter BritChaser
- Start date
I don't want to offend anyone and I don't have access to Gray's so I don't know what they wrote. I'm no expert shooter. Killed my first rabbit in 59 or 60 with a borrowed Stevens double 410. My Father was a rabbit hunter and had a pack of beagles. Started bird hunting in 66 when we moved to NJ ducks and woodcock. Continued duck hunting when we moved to Va. in 68. became a pretty fair natural wing shooter. Moved back to the families home state of SC in 1973 and hunting was pretty much over, lack of opportunity. When I was about 53 I decide I wasn't going to work all the time. I was going to do something I wanted to do. Got a yellow lab pup and started duck and dove hunting. So I had to get my shooting skills back . If you think , which should I use before a shot, sustained lead or swing through your going to miss. So after a few season of doves ducks and geese I had most of my natural skills back . But I wanted to get better, so a few tips from a pro and I'm a bird killer. Your always going to have to take a snap shot here and there. I'm still trying to get better and I'll take what help I can get. What I hoping is I can become a better upland bird hunter. I'm sure you guys can help. Here's a tip you don't need a shorter stock. Learn to mount your gun buy pushing it forward using your elbows and shoulders as a hinge. You will clear your clothing and with practice a better mount
Munster927
Well-known member
I agree and also disagree with that statement. Some folks have short arms and need a shorter stock to pull up quicker or not feel like they're over stretched. My uncle has that problem with some short arms. He shaved down the stock of one of his guns then he ended up buying a micro 12 gauge that has a 13.75 LOP.
But I agree if people have "normal" sized arms, adjusting LOP just to clear clothing isn't necessary.
Winchester30
Active member
Many people like to fix poor shooting with fit, LOP, drop, etc rather than learning proper gun mounting fundamentals.
A5 Sweet 16
Well-known member
Agree, because once you've established good fundamental techniques, you're relaxed, & a rooster is in range, what else is there? When your mount is consistent, LOP determines whether or not your cheek is "down on the stock" & you're looking straight down the barrel. Ideally, you don't think about it during a shot, because it means you're concentrating on the barrel & not the bird. Leads to a lot of misses (or so I'm told).
Take my 1929 Model 12 16-gauge. It's stock is so short that I commonly use a slip-on butt pad, which adds over a 1/2". In warm weather when I'm in only a t-shirt & my vest, I add another 1/2" spacer between the butt & pad. Otherwise I tend to shoot low with that gun.
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gettinbirdie
Active member
Alot of good info here. I've taken a few novice hunters out over the years. Something I notice they all do-they manage to "get on" a rooster, swing, lead, shoot-then they realize they hit it and automatically bring the gun down.
Pheasant are tough as nails-alot of the time they don't fold and die as planned! It makes me feel bad that they didn't bag the bird and bird flies off to die elsewhere. I have suggested to said upcomers, if you know you hit the bird and it doesnt fold-continue to swing through and hit it again. Of course, having the conversation of making a safe follow up shot.
Pheasant are tough as nails-alot of the time they don't fold and die as planned
! It makes me feel bad that they didn't bag the bird and bird flies off to die elsewhere. I have suggested to said upcomers, if you know you hit the bird and it doesnt fold-continue to swing through and hit it again. Of course, having the conversation of making a safe follow up shot.
Labs
Well-known member
This sounds like the "he'll grow into it" school of thought that was the norm back in the 60's. To this day I recall the frustration of after "outgrowing" the double barrel 410 I learned to shoot & hunt with, being given a cheap Sears 20 gauge pump by a well meaning uncle. That shotgun's stock was easily 1.5" too long for me and had so little drop it was almost impossible to get a cheek weld. With my narrow face & high cheek bones, when I shot it I got slammed in the face, so of course I developed a flinch it took years to cure. It was all I had to hunt with and a morning of duck hunting left me with a visible bruise on my face. Despite this, when I tried to tell my parents I just couldn't shoot that shotgun, I was told to quit "bellyaching" (my parents classified any complaints as either "bellyaching" or "bawling like a calf" depending on the vehemence) and be grateful I had any shotgun at all. I had to endure that thing for 3 years, until Dad got a silver-worn 12 gauge 1939 Model 12 for a song and gave it to me. with it's short LOP (most all Winchesters were 13.75" back then) and it's user friendly drop, I was back in business. I shot the hell out of that Model 12 for the next 6 years until it literally fell apart. That experience left an indelible impression on my as to stock fit...
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remy3424
Well-known member
Maybe shotgun fit was why I struggled as a kid growing-up hitting anything (w/ a 870 Mag with the recoil pad removed to shorten it) and now I am a decent shot (stock 11-87)....I grew into the gun...that and hundreds (maybe thousands) of shooting opportunities over that past 45+ years of hunting. Less than 3 months until the Iowa opener, getting exicted already...heck, I have been looking forward to this years opener since the last season ended....my favorite hobby!
5 stand
Well-known member
This statement holds true in my book. Less than 30 days, let's get this party started.
birdshooter
Well-known member
Not always simple. Probably the two biggest reasons one misses is due to poor foot position/ stance when pulling the trigger and two looking at the whole bird instead of the head. Probably a third is shooting too fast, not clearly seeing the bird before you move. Now if you're presented with a going away shot you obviously only have that part of the bird to look at. If your feet are wrong meaning your lead foot is not pointed in the general direction the bird is flying to and or your all twisted up, your body tightens up and can't follow thru smoothly which tends to stop the gun. Anytime you can see a roosters head meaning the red eye patch, white ring on the neck and or beak, that is where your eyes need to go. Where your eyes go so goes the gun, meaning barrel.
How much lead is something that generally needs to be ironed out on the trap or skeet range or even a Sporting clays course. Generally speaking most shots on Phez are either going away or some degree of quartering angle in which case focusing keenly on the birds head generally will give you the correct lead as your eyes give all the input to the brain as you pull the trigger. The other thing I will mention especially for someone who is shooting clays all summer is that birds and clays are quite different in the initial speed. Birds start out slow and speed up and clays are just the opposite. So after shooting clays all summer you're all keyed up and used to something starting out real fast. What happens sometimes on that very first Pheasant flush of the season is you shoot in front of them. Slow down take a good look at the birds head before you move and match the birds speed as you acquire the bird with your barrel. You can even do this on the range by holding your gun as you would be walking up on a dog which has pinned a bird and have your partner release the clay at his discretion so you don't know when it's coming. The gun mounting can be improved at home in front of a mirror with an unloaded gun or tracking a line along wall or ceiling. Practice stepping into the shot with the lead foot and you develop muscle memory.
Labs
Well-known member
Birdhshooter makes some valid points. Shooting too quickly (i.e., before the rooster opens the range a bit) is very apropos, particularly if like me you favor the tight patterning Prairie Storm load. Even with IC over Mod, I found I needed to let them get out a bit or the result would be a miss or a destroyed bird...
Munster927
Well-known member
Agree with Labs and Birdshooter. I get on the bird and try to subconsciously say "one" in my head before I pull the trigger so I can keep my gun moving, and let the bird open up a little bit.
I have a tendency to get on the bird and pull the trigger and not keep my gun moving. Trying to "count" in my head helps me slow myself down and not rush so much.
I have a tendency to get on the bird and pull the trigger and not keep my gun moving. Trying to "count" in my head helps me slow myself down and not rush so much.
5 stand
Well-known member
Yes sir, wood on wood will increase your chances!
birdshooter
Well-known member
Raising your head often times is a gun fit issue, not always but if you're doing this often it very well could be. You raise your head because the drop to comb distance is too much or in other words it's too low for you thus you raise your head to see the bird. When you mount the gun with your cheek firmly planted in the stock do you look right down the rib seeing nothing but the front bead, or possibly see the back of the receiver and very little or no rib?
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Rogue Hunter
Active member
As far as foot position is concerned, in the grouse woods, by necessity, I've shot both weight forward, both left or right foot forward. Doesn't seem to make much difference, to me. It may depend more on your ability to balance/center/anchor your body.
remy3424
Well-known member
Often a miss is when I get twisted-up in deep cover, when the bird busts-out in a direction not anticipated. It make sence about gun-fit and everything else brought up, but I am just an old farm-kid, still shooting the first shot-gun I bought as an adult (11-87) and you eventually just figure it out and it is instinctive if you do it enough with the same gun. Sound like a bunch of folks are switching guns during season, I have a few spares/back-ups/loaners, but they seldom see the light of day. Might try a Berretta 20 this season, loaded-up a few boxes for it last winter...figured it might be a decent "old man" gun for me someday when gun weight becomes an issue. A little off topic...starting to get wound-up for the opener already! Nice that the posts and activity is picking-up on the board now.
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ehudgens
Active member
I truly believe gun fit is very important, but understanding eye dominance might be one of the most fundamental aspects to shooting a shotgun. Unfortunately, I’m a right handed shooter with a dominant left eye. Once I understood that and learned how to shoot with a dominant left eye, my accuracy improved immensely. For those who don’t understand eye dominance and how it impacts your shooting here’s a couple of links for some useful information:
www.allaboutvision.com
How to Find Your Dominant Eye + Why You'd Want To
Try these easy tests to find your dominant eye.