High protein and organ failure?

W

Weimdogman

Well-known member
Seems that 30 years ago everyone cautioned against feeding high protein year round. Has the food gotten better or is liver/kidney damage still a real concern?
 
Great question. Too much of a "good thing" often proves to be detrimental long-term ... including humans and dogs.
 
Seems like a number of hunters are chasing better dog food due to the old grass being greener on the other side of the fence thing. Here's what has worked for me in the 24 years I've been fielding bird dogs. I always feed Purina One. Why? For one, it's highly nutritious and my dogs have thrived on it. They have plenty energy afield. Two, it's available in most stores and always at Walmart. Changing dog food can traumatize the dog's gut and perhaps even more so when the usual food runs out during a hunt and what's locally available is substituted.

On non-hunting days my dog is fed half a ration in the morning and half in the afternoon. The day before a day of hunting, the dog gets extra in the evening - all it wants if it's going to be a full day of hunting -- and nothing in the morning. The dog's stomach should be empty when put afield. I never feed snacks either.

Well, that's just what has worked for me.
 
I am just a dog owner like everybody else with zero expertise in dog nutrition. That said, I did spend quite a bit of time researching dog food when I bought my latest pair of young gun dogs. I did a lot of reading, talked with several different breeders on what they fed and why. I talked with people who ran their dogs in hunt tests, field trials etc. and while the brand sometimes differed the one consistent was most recommended feeding 30/20. A few fed 24/20 to their kennel. Clearly either will work.

One night I found a research study that stated that hunting dogs fed dog food with 30% protein had fewer soft tissue injuries than those that were fed lower protein levels. Another study I read said that dogs fed 20% fat found significantly more birds than dogs fed lower fat food. So for me, what articles I read supported what most breeders and competitors were telling me to feed.

I also know some change their dog food over the course of the year from lower fat and protein to higher depending on time of year. That wasn't recommended to me.I found an article on dog food that quoted a nutritionist at Purina:

"It's not advantageous to switch to a dog food lower in protein or carbohydrates during the summer months. Purina Research Nutritionist Brian Zanghi, PhD, explains, 'Switching to a maintenance diet in the off-season is like metabolically detraining your dog.'

Rather, Zanghi advises feeding a high-protein/high-fat performance dog food year-round, such as Purina Pro Plan SPORT Performance 30/20 Formula. 'It's best to reduce the portion fed in the off-season and monitor body condition to help keep your dog healthy and fit.'

The negatives I found on feeding 30/20 were focused around weight(a fat dog) or dogs with existing liver issues or food allergies. I have not found any data or research that indicates that 30/20 or similar food damages a dogs liver or any other organs.

I don't know that there is a right or wrong answer to dog food. Every dog is different and different breeds have different considerations. People 50 years ago had great dogs and I would guess that none were fed a 30/20 diet. In the end, I think that people should feed what they think is best. Find something that works and stick with it if you can.

After 40 years of owning dogs, I have never found changing dog food frequently to be beneficial. The only thing I didn't anticipate when I got my current pups was inflation and the jump in cost of dog food.
 
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I lived in Alaska for 30 years where the long-distance mushing community is strong.
I've always feed the highest fat (>=25%) highest protein (>=30%) kibble on the market.
For an adult 65 pound lab, 2 cups per day is their normal feeding.
My labs have all lived between 13 and 15 years old. They all have hunted to age 13.
 
My friend's wife's dog has developed liver issues. It's 7 years old.

His wife is BIG. She feeds her dog what she eats. Not good to feed lots of human food. She can't stop eating or feeding the dog.

I always feed once per day(evening). Dogs started from wild animals. They historically feasted and fasted. When they had a kill they gorged themselves. It might be several weeks before they made another kill or scavenged some food.

I feed in evening so as to avoid twisted stomach or gut. Some hunting dog breeds are prone to this. My friend lost one dog FAST before could get to the vet. Second dog he knew the symptoms and made it in time to get operated on and saved. Not a nice death!

The food I feed all year is 26% protein, 16% fat. It's chicken, rice and veggies. No corn. My dogs work during the hunting season but they are not Iditarod athletes. I watch their weight and feed a bit more if losing some weight. I expect them to trim up during hunting. Fat is an important part of the diet more so than high protein content.

Feeding for performance | Dog health | Kennel Club

Find out what to feed your dog to give them energy, build muscle and enhance their strength and fitness, especially if they’re a canine athlete.
www.thekennelclub.org.uk www.thekennelclub.org.uk
 
Oh man, I remember those days too! Back then, I had a dog named Max, and I was super cautious about his diet after hearing all those warnings about high protein. I’ve done a lot of research since then, and it seems the quality of pet food has really improved. Companies are more mindful of balanced nutrition, and there's a better understanding of how different ingredients affect our pets.

I still keep an eye on protein levels, but I’m not as worried as I used to be. If you're still concerned, definitely talk to your vet. By the way, I recently stumbled upon https://goliathsteroids.com/ and was pleasantly surprised by the useful info they had about supplements.
 
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Dakotazeb said:
I feed ProPlan 26/16 year round and my dog does great. Maintains a constant weight and has plenty of energy.
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I just checked the percentages of Purina One True Instinct turkey and venison blend and was surprised to see it's 30% protein and 17% fat, topping Purina Pro Plan. In the past One was 26/16. which all my dogs thrived on.
 
westksbowhunter said:
My dogs always gained weight on a 30/20 in the off season, even when I cut back on the amounts. The worst thing you can do is to allow your dog to go over weight, even if it is only by a few pounds. And most every dog I see is over weight.
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That's exactly why I went to PPP 26/16. I have a spayed female and with 30/20 I had a difficult time keeping her weight down. During days of hunting or hevy exercise I just up the amount I feed. Seems to work fine for me.
 
Dakotazeb said:
That's exactly why I went to PPP 26/16. I have a spayed female and with 30/20 I had a difficult time keeping her weight down. During days of hunting or hevy exercise I just up the amount I feed. Seems to work fine for me.
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didn't PPP used to be 30/20 or so?
 
Dakotazeb said:
That's exactly why I went to PPP 26/16. I have a spayed female and with 30/20 I had a difficult time keeping her weight down. During days of hunting or hevy exercise I just up the amount I feed. Seems to work fine for me.
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No weekend hunting dog needs to be on a 30/20. If you are competitive in field trials then yes. But not the average hunting dog.
 
westksbowhunter said:
These are casual hunting dogs, not dogs that are running the Iditarod. They don't need a 30/20 feed.
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I've not seen any scientific studies about anything negative feeding a high fat and high protein kibble for working dogs.
I train retrievers for field trials 6 days a week and hunt them from Sept. to mid January.
I've always feed the highest fat (>=25%) highest protein (>=30%) kibble on the market.
For an adult 65 pound lab, 2 cups per day is their normal feeding.
My labs have all lived between 13 and 15 years old. They all have hunted to age 13
 
Victor Hi Pro Plus 30/20, as one example only has 409 cals per cup, so not all 30/20 feed is high calorie. Like AKskeeter, all of the research I have found supports feeding a 30/20 feed year round for active dogs. On the flip side, I have not found any negative research to feeding a high protein/high fat diet.

In studies published by the Iams Company, four groups of dogs were put through a rigorous training protocol similar to what we use in conditioning bird dogs. The groups were fed diets that were exactly the same except in protein levels. The diets contained 16, 24, 32 and 40 percent dietary protein levels as fed respectively.Of the dogs fed the 16 percent protein food, none completed the training period without having at least one muscle or tendon injury. Two of the dogs fed the 24 percent protein food had injuries. But, importantly, none of the dogs fed a diet containing 32 or 40 percent dietary protein had an injury during training.

Feed what you want and if you only hunt a few weekends a year, it probably doesn't matter but if your dogs are really active hunting dogs, I think they benefit from a performance food. YMMV.
 
If you will read, I said the causal hunting dogs do not need a 30-20 dog food. I also said that if someone is running field trials, then yes a 30-20 is justified. I didn't mention any scientific studies. Obviously, you do more with your dogs than the average hunter so feed away. For guys like me that hunt 30-45 days a year, there is no need. I do supplement with 4 pumps of fish oil daily, which combined with a quality 26/16 food, probably has more benefit than just a high protein diet alone. Here is the fish oil I use. You can feed a lot less food using the fish oil. The fish oil helps their coat, immune system, mind, and most importantly their joints.

 
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