Got a diver. Any suggestions

P

PheasantWhisperer

Member
So I have a 1 and a half year old pup who is a diver. It all started with mice I believe when she was a pup. So she points, rock solid, from distance, doesnt dive in until I get right there on her. So I can still get the bird but sloppy. So now I say whoa after she points. I walk a circle around her and the bird a couple of times, then go kick it up. Problem solved right? Wrong. She still does it when there is other dogs around. Doesnt matter if she's in the lead on point or backing. Again, doesnt do it until couple feet from the flush. But I dont like it.
 
A "diver?"

Not sure what is meant...dog doesn't stay on point? Dog tries to grab the bird?

My Golden was on point last fall and decided to grab the bird but found a mouthful of quills instead! Not good!
 
I would work the dog on a Check Cord some more. If the dog is not stopping on point at a distance when it catches wind of the bird, stop it, and insist that it doesn't creep forward. If it moves forward set it back. This goes for backing as well.
 
SetterNut said:
I would work the dog on a Check Cord some more. If the dog is not stopping on point at a distance when it catches wind of the bird, stop it, and insist that it doesn't creep forward. If it moves forward set it back. This goes for backing as well.
Click to expand...
Agreed. Half hitch on the check cord can do wonders.
 
Good advice so far. I'd use a check cord and launchers. Hold the check cord and let a buddy go in for the flush. When the dog breaks launch the bird and pull back the check cord. If the dog stands after that, gently stroke her side and praise her. Just be sure not to pop the bird right in her face.
 
Thanks for the advice. I was trying to avoid the checkcord in the field but that seems like the best answer right now. I was trying to avoid it because she does everything else so well. Quartering, finding dead ones, retrieving, tracking runners. But does jump in right when Im getting ready to kick. Frustrating. Maybe I should just go the wing and shot route with her? That way she stays till the bird drops.?
 
I'd agree with the check cord reinforcement, as folks have mentioned.

Sounds like it's a competition thing with other dogs, so you might only need use it when hunting with other dogs, and only for the length of time until your reinforcement kicks in as "the rule" for pointing birds.

And, I know you know this, but...pup's a year and one half old. Whole lot of enthusiasm contained in that canine container. If the dog is better when you are alone, chances are that with reinforcement and experience, it'll steady down as its experience grows.

High praise when it does it right, reinforcement when it does it wrong...and the pup will work out the system.

Is puppy.

Best wishes.
 
I have a dog that exhibited this problem. She is the most submissive dog I ever had. Curious about the personality of your dog. Dominant or submissive?

I like the dog getting to that rooster ASAP. Steady to shot would be necessary for someone who guides at a game farm.
 
Most of the time...I use "stay" and the dog gets it and doesn't move. However, he does make a mistake on an occasion.

Do you use a command when the dog is on point? Just curious...
 
Last edited:
Thanks for the replies guys.
Kis-She does do it when its just me a her too. The only time it really bothers me is when Im hunting with someone else. And yeah I didnt say much to her last year just being a 1 year old pup. That was my goal with her this coming year was to curb the problem.
CS-Definitely not submissive. Very aggressive in the field and with the older dogs. When play gets a little rough, she doesnt back down.
JB-I dont say much in the field if I dont have to. I use hand signals and just a light whistle with my mouth to get them to look at me. When they go on point I dont say anything. The next word out of my mouth if there is no birds there is "o.k" which releases them.

I did work her on a checkcord tonight with birds. I did whoa her a little further away from it. Right when it looked like the smell turned her nose I whoad her. Gave it 10 seconds then went in. She wanted to move right when I did, and I had my daughter check her. Repeated. Took her off of it and she did a little better. Would creep a little, I think cause she was further back from it than normal. But I think it will sink in. I appreciate the help men.
 
I wouldn't whoa her into pointing. What happens when you're not around? You had it right the first time. I think the launchers will help. As soon as she scents the bird, launch it. Soon she'll beat you to the punch. And any time she creeps in, launch the bird. She'll learn the bird only stays if she stands.
 
PheasantWhisperer said:
Thanks for the advice. I was trying to avoid the checkcord in the field but that seems like the best answer right now. I was trying to avoid it because she does everything else so well. Quartering, finding dead ones, retrieving, tracking runners. But does jump in right when Im getting ready to kick. Frustrating. Maybe I should just go the wing and shot route with her? That way she stays till the bird drops.?
Click to expand...

We always kept a check cord on every dog the first 2 seasons. That way we could always get our hands on our dogs. The trainer always needs to be in control with a young dog. And very seldom did I carry a gun with a young dog that was in training. I think most owners can't distinguish between hunting and training.
 
Seems like you have the answer.

I still use a cord with Max (5.5), but not in the field. Perhaps training a Golden to point is different that training pointers?

I just hope Max doesn't point another porcupine and bolts/breaks for the grab! I use "stay" and he usually stays put.
 
jonnyB said:
Seems like you have the answer.

I still use a cord with Max (5.5), but not in the field. Perhaps training a Golden to point is different that training pointers?

I just hope Max doesn't point another porcupine and bolts/breaks for the grab! I use "stay" and he usually stays put.
Click to expand...

It's much different! First of all, pointers aren't trained to point. It's an instinct that is simply nurtured and built on.
 
Understood...what we are discussing here, at least initially,the dog breaking the point and moving forward.

And the question is - how do we solve this?? If all pointy dogs held the point and didn't move, we wouldn't have this dialog, right??

There would be no need for training...
 
jonnyB said:
Understood...what we are discussing here, at least initially,the dog breaking the point and moving forward.

And the question is - how do we solve this?? If all pointy dogs held the point and didn't move, we wouldn't have this dialog, right??

There would be no need for training...
Click to expand...

That's what the launchers I suggested previously are for. Pointing dogs need to learn that when they move in on a bird or move while pointing that the bird flies away. All this can be done without a word said. Some dogs learn this naturally. Sure, it's training, but it doesn't have to be obedience training. Sort of like an experienced retriever marking off the gun. It's not taught, it's just learned.
 
Young dogs are going to have the tendency to creep and bust, or outright bust. As others have advised, more work on a check cord to get the pup staunch in the training field before hunting him. Then once hunting, do not shoot birds he doesn't point and hold. Shooting those promotes sloppiness. I also wouldn't hunt him with other dogs until I'm more secure in knowing he's going to do his job. Introducing other dogs provides another stress he's not used to.

6 month old pup - out in the field to expose the dog without expectations of anything.
1-1/2 year old pup - you've trained him in the training field and get him holding point, then graduate to shooting when he holds without being restrained. Taking him hunting on his own and shooting only birds he points and holds. Later in season hunt with another dog and follow same cautious approach.
2-1/2 year old dog - you should have a good hunting companion and not have to worry so much. You've spent the first two seasons grooming him for the next 10+.
 
mnaj_springer said:
I wouldn't whoa her into pointing. What happens when you're not around? You had it right the first time. I think the launchers will help. As soon as she scents the bird, launch it. Soon she'll beat you to the punch. And any time she creeps in, launch the bird. She'll learn the bird only stays if she stands.
Click to expand...

I agree with this.
 
To the OP, since this post was revived I re-read the whole thing and a thought popped into my head... actually a question. How are you walking in to flush the bird? Walking along side the dog encourages creeping in because you have become competition. Same thing with another dog there... it's competition. Have you tried circling around and coming towards the dog (but not directly at it)?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top