Force fetching with a GSP

L

Little Brit

New member
I know this is always talked about guys and I have seen videos and youtube clips and read books but does every gun dog need to be force fetched. I am currently starting this training and I know it is going to take awhile but here is my concern. My pup is 8 months old now when she was about 4 month she was retrieving everything including birds now that I started force fetch training the retrieving fell apart. Sometimes brings bumpers back, with birds she will just do laps with it. Should I have started the FF or just let her do her thing that was working when she was younger and having fun with bringing thinks back to me. Did I turn something she like to do that was fun into a job she doesn't like to do.
 
I would say that she probably isn't ready for force fetch training. It can be done at 8 months, but that is awful young for a gsp. I like to be sure that they are mature and can handle pressure well before starting. You really need to just read the dog and let her tell you when she is ready. Just by your brief description, I am guessing she is telling you she isn't ready.
 
smart fetch is a good program, 8 months is plenty old enough..the key is once you start the progam, YOU HAVE TO FINISH IT, ALL OF IT....and no screwing off in between, stay the course, no deviation....
 
Eight months is a little on the short side for me but it depends on the dog. No one says you have to FF your dog, alot depends on what your plans are. For most of the venues that require a retrieve I'm a firm believer in it. If the dog is just your hunting companion then probably not. The only problem being is you have no foundation to fall back on if problems develop. In most cases the failure to retrieve goes back to a sloppy recall.

cr
 
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If the dog is naturally retrieving then it does not need force fetching...just build on the retrieves with doubles, blinds etc etc...make it interesting and heaps of praise!! I know of an EB who was ruined for retrieving (she was a natural) through her owner thinking he should ff train her...took him many months to get her back to where she was...if it isnt broken, why fix it?
 
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Little Brit said:
I know this is always talked about guys and I have seen videos and youtube clips and read books but does every gun dog need to be force fetched. I am currently starting this training and I know it is going to take awhile but here is my concern. My pup is 8 months old now when she was about 4 month she was retrieving everything including birds now that I started force fetch training the retrieving fell apart. Sometimes brings bumpers back, with birds she will just do laps with it. Should I have started the FF or just let her do her thing that was working when she was younger and having fun with bringing thinks back to me. Did I turn something she like to do that was fun into a job she doesn't like to do.
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Eight months is the perfect age.

Just sounds like your obedience isn't very good. Work more on obedience with the pup.

FF will clean up all those issues you are having. Just like what the other poster posted.....once you start force fetching......finish it complete. No piss assing around!! Keep your standards high!

Having a dog that is completely force fetched correctly is a lot more enjoyable to hunt with. Your buddies will appreciate it more too!

I've seen way to many dogs that go out there to pickup a bird and the owner is sitting there trying to call his dog back......meanwhile the dog is either chewing the bird or screwing off in another direction playing with the bird.
 
I have found force fetching turns a good dog into a great one. I personally was not confident that I could do it myself and fully finish it with our older gsp so I had our trainer help with that. He is super hard headed and I knew I didn't have the experience to try it and I didn't want to walk away mid stream. With our younger one, I might give it a go but I have a lot more confidence in a professional as I am still learning and think force fetching is something left to professionals if you have an reservation in completing it.

When he was done, he was a whole new dog. There is something special about having a dog race to anything you deem worthy of fetching, hold it and bring it back to hand.

I don't think it is necessary for everyone but if it's what you want, it's pretty awesome.

I think the pups go through a stage in FF where fetching no longer is fun but haven't learned yet that it's a job so they don't enjoy it again yet.

It's like sports, "Dad I want to play hockey" ok great, they try out, make the team. A couple weeks of 4 am practices and it's no longer fun. Once the "games" start though they realize how much they like it and it's just part of the process.

Just a thought
 
I'm wondering if the dog is interested in "finding" a downed bird. Isn't this the first step?

I've hunted with other pointing dogs that find the bird and put their paw on top of the bird to hold - kind of funny to see, but it worked.

Does the dog understand "dead bird?" Proably not at 8mo's.

I make a game of hiding, finding and retrieving training dummies in the house. Get the dummy scented and drag it with a rope/cord. Hide it in another room, under something - whatever. This game can easily be transferred to the outside and is a good building block for the dog.

Good Luck!
 
jonnyB said:
I'm wondering if the dog is interested in "finding" a downed bird. Isn't this the first step?

I've hunted with other pointing dogs that find the bird and put their paw on top of the bird to hold - kind of funny to see, but it worked.

Does the dog understand "dead bird?" Proably not at 8mo's.

I make a game of hiding, finding and retrieving training dummies in the house. Get the dummy scented and drag it with a rope/cord. Hide it in another room, under something - whatever. This game can easily be transferred to the outside and is a good building block for the dog.

Good Luck!
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teaching a dog to track and FF should be 2 different activities...never combine the two....when you train for FF, that should be all you do, until the training is complete.
FF is not only for a reliable fetch, but overall cooperation and command compliance...it works.
 
David0311

Little Brit said:
I know this is always talked about guys and I have seen videos and youtube clips and read books but does every gun dog need to be force fetched. I am currently starting this training and I know it is going to take awhile but here is my concern. My pup is 8 months old now when she was about 4 month she was retrieving everything including birds now that I started force fetch training the retrieving fell apart. Sometimes brings bumpers back, with birds she will just do laps with it. Should I have started the FF or just let her do her thing that was working when she was younger and having fun with bringing thinks back to me. Did I turn something she like to do that was fun into a job she doesn't like to do.
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Uplandsportsman and 94---have excellent advice--some others b.s.
 
Little Brit said:
I know this is always talked about guys and I have seen videos and youtube clips and read books but does every gun dog need to be force fetched. I am currently starting this training and I know it is going to take awhile but here is my concern. My pup is 8 months old now when she was about 4 month she was retrieving everything including birds now that I started force fetch training the retrieving fell apart. Sometimes brings bumpers back, with birds she will just do laps with it. Should I have started the FF or just let her do her thing that was working when she was younger and having fun with bringing thinks back to me. Did I turn something she like to do that was fun into a job she doesn't like to do.
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You may have turned something she liked doing into something that is a chore for her. Stick to it step by step and it will work out.
 
hunter94 said:
FF is not only for a reliable fetch, but overall cooperation and command compliance...it works.
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With great respect, should you not have already developed and continue with strengthening co-operation,connection and command compliance...I want these facets in place long before eight months old.
 
If a natural retrieve is not present or cutting it, Pointing dogs are usually force fetched after formal field training and a season of hunting (around 1.5 - 2 yrs of age depending on the maturity of the dog). Never put that kind of pressure on a 8 mo old GSP pup.

Almost all competition dogs go through some sort of force retrieve program, if retrieving is a part of the game.

In general dogs that are trained too early end up having to be re-trained again.

www.faceykennels.com
 
Thank you everyone for your help and input. This was an old post from months ago that was replied to so it came back up.

My pup has now just turn 1 year old. Our hunting season started here in Ontario, Canada September 25 and I have had the pup out at least 3 to 4 times a week if not more. She is doing her part that's for sure, finding a lot of birds holding points steady to wing and sometimes shot. As for the retrieving part she is OK but I will need to work on it a bit more for sure. For now I'm just going to hunt her this season and keep it fun and see what comes out of it. She is defiantly improving on it every outing so it might be a matter of exposing her and keeping it fun. I am in no rush to put pressure on her yet but will look for professional advice over the winter months and start the FF process to get us over the hump.

Bird count to date:

Woodcock..........14
Pheasant............12
Grouse................2
Duck (retrieved 7).....shot over in blind 13+
rabbit..................None yet

Still a few months to go so hopefully numbers will increase

Not to mention all the training birds used in the summer months

Chucker
Pigeon
Quail

Thank you again everyone. Will post updates soon.
 
Little Brit said:
Thank you everyone for your help and input. This was an old post from months ago that was replied to so it came back up.

My pup has now just turn 1 year old. Our hunting season started here in Ontario, Canada September 25 and I have had the pup out at least 3 to 4 times a week if not more. She is doing her part that's for sure, finding a lot of birds holding points steady to wing and sometimes shot. As for the retrieving part she is OK but I will need to work on it a bit more for sure. For now I'm just going to hunt her this season and keep it fun and see what comes out of it. She is defiantly improving on it every outing so it might be a matter of exposing her and keeping it fun. I am in no rush to put pressure on her yet but will look for professional advice over the winter months and start the FF process to get us over the hump.

Bird count to date:

Woodcock..........14
Pheasant............12
Grouse................2
Duck (retrieved 7).....shot over in blind 13+
rabbit..................None yet

Still a few months to go so hopefully numbers will increase

Not to mention all the training birds used in the summer months

Chucker
Pigeon
Quail

Thank you again everyone. Will post updates soon.
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Not a good approach to force fetch!

If she continues her bad habits ie. mouthing birds, repeatedly dropping birds. The habits will be twice as hard to break if she is older!

Best to buck up and get the force fetch over with.

Just my opinion.

BT
 
Big Tuna that might only be needed for stubborn Labs not pointing dogs. I have a buddy with a white Lab that loves eating ducks and geese. As soon as you turn your back he inhales the birds. Seen him eat a goose breast in 4 sec flat one day. His dog was FF so what would his next step be if FF didn't work.
 
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