Fall thistle spraying

UGUIDE

UGUIDE

Active member
In conjunction with DOW rep on fall milestone applications for thistle I made the first test plot application. We were waiting for hard frost (2 nights at 25 degrees) and then warm up during day for application.

Thistles look green and receptive and hope the 15 species of natives are mostly dormant. Have a good stand right next to it that has established very well to compare tolerance to next year and see how the stands differ.

One benefit of fall spraying is it can make nice walking lanes in CRP whom the old farts can benefit from. This is from tractor tires. Does knock down your cover though relatively speaking.

I plan to migrate all my large field spraying to fall instead of during spring nesting season. I will still most likely need to spray for thistle in spring in tree belts, firebreaks and other smaller areas as needed.

the rate recommended was 5oz/acre. I went with 40PSI to insure spray got down into cover. Also used NIS (non ionic surfactant).
 
UGUIDE said:
In conjunction with DOW rep on fall milestone applications for thistle I made the first test plot application. We were waiting for hard frost (2 nights at 25 degrees) and then warm up during day for application.

Thistles look green and receptive and hope the 15 species of natives are mostly dormant. Have a good stand right next to it that has established very well to compare tolerance to next year and see how the stands differ.

One benefit of fall spraying is it can make nice walking lanes in CRP whom the old farts can benefit from. This is from tractor tires. Does knock down your cover though relatively speaking.

I plan to migrate all my large field spraying to fall instead of during spring nesting season. I will still most likely need to spray for thistle in spring in tree belts, firebreaks and other smaller areas as needed.

the rate recommended was 5oz/acre. I went with 40PSI to insure spray got down into cover. Also used NIS (non ionic surfactant).
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When you say you hope the 15 species of natives are dormant, are you talking about forbs?.

Is there a residual with milestone that can nick you in the late spring when the soil temps get to 60 and the warm seasons start coming out of dormancy?

One thing is for certain, milestone is bad, bad medicine for thistles.

There is no better time to treat your yard for dandelions, than now, although it's getting harder to get to a decent warm up.
 
reddog said:
When you say you hope the 15 species of natives are dormant, are you talking about forbs?.

Is there a residual with milestone that can nick you in the late spring when the soil temps get to 60 and the warm seasons start coming out of dormancy?

One thing is for certain, milestone is bad, bad medicine for thistles.

There is no better time to treat your yard for dandelions, than now, although it's getting harder to get to a decent warm up.
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Yes forbs legumes and wildflowers.

90 day residual is what the rep and label says.
 
UGUIDE said:
Yes forbs legumes and wildflowers.

90 day residual is what the rep and label says.
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I would really question the 90 days of residual on milestone. We had a sprayer operator mistakenly spray a stand of high diversity natives and we are now on our 2 growing season of substantial impact to our native forbs. It was a single pass with an 80 boom. Its actually been a great test plot on a native high diversity and milestone. This season the forbs were stunted. Maybe a third of the height of the forbs that didn't get sprayed.

From my experience with milestone you can count on 3 years of residual. A big reason why its great for Canada thistle!
 
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3car said:
I would really question the 90 days of residual on milestone. We had a sprayer operator mistakenly spray a stand of high diversity natives and we are now on our 2 growing season of substantial impact to our native forbs. It was a single pass with an 80 boom. Its actually been a great test plot on a native high diversity and milestone. This season the forbs were stunted. Maybe a third of the height of the forbs that didn't get sprayed.

From my experience with milestone you can count on 3 years of residual. A big reason why its great for Canada thistle!
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Agreed, (from my non professional standpoint). I have always planned on at least 18 months of residual when applying Milestone. Love it and hate it for good reason.. :)
 
I would tend to agree as well on residual but the situation is what needs to be assessed. My question to the rep was how long after spraying 5 oz in the fall do you have to wait to interseed into the stand in the fall without affecting what is planted. 90 days.
 
Chris. I don't mean to be argumentative but just trying to possibly save you some expense...

When you say interseed what are you interseeding? If it's forbs, keep in mind a germinated seed or a juvenile plant won't take much of any type of chemical action to wipe it out.

If it's grasses, I've found that they typically like growing in the residual of Milestone and will thrive.

I over seeded forbs into Milestone plot that I waited 18 months before overseeding. This was my first growing year, so I won't be able to see how it does till next summer. Time will tell.
 
reddog said:
Chris. I don't mean to be argumentative but just trying to possibly save you some expense...

When you say interseed what are you interseeding? If it's forbs, keep in mind a germinated seed or a juvenile plant won't take much of any type of chemical action to wipe it out.

If it's grasses, I've found that they typically like growing in the residual of Milestone and will thrive.

I over seeded forbs into Milestone plot that I waited 18 months before overseeding. This was my first growing year, so I won't be able to see how it does till next summer. Time will tell.
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That's kinda what I was thinking too. Even the milestone tolerant forbs won't be able to take anything as a seedling.
 
Thanks for sharing experiences with Milestone. You mentioned spraying in shelterbelts. Advice I received on spraying near trees is to use Stinger/Transline (clopyralid) rather than Milestone, as Stinger is safe to use around trees. I had bad thistles in my shelterbelts. I mowed them in July and then sprayed with Stinger after a hard killing frost in Fall. I essentially eliminated the thistles. I also used Stinger in the same way on a small piece of heavy forbs that was along the road and next to our driveway. The thistles were bad and looked bad so I waited until late November when not a single forb remained green, but the thistles still had some green. Next season, the thistles were gone, but the forb diversity was noticeably reduced compared to a nearby plot with same forb mix. Perhaps my forbs were not as dormant as they appeared or there is some residual effect with Stinger as well. My forb list was allegedly "Stinger tolerant".
 
This spring I had a food plot area covered with C. Thistle. One month before planting white sorghum with dual I sprayed milestone, 5 oz/acre. I wiped out the C. Thistle and had a perfect stand of sorghum. The residual effect may be dependant on the soil type and timing of precipitation. We had more rain than usual in May and June. For fall spraying I like to use 60-80 psi, 10 gallons per acre at 5mph, to get better penetration through the grasses(esp. Switch grass) on low lying C. Thistle.
 
Gone Catch'N said:
This spring I had a food plot area covered with C. Thistle. One month before planting white sorghum with dual I sprayed milestone, 5 oz/acre. I wiped out the C. Thistle and had a perfect stand of sorghum. The residual effect may be dependant on the soil type and timing of precipitation. We had more rain than usual in May and June. For fall spraying I like to use 60-80 psi, 10 gallons per acre at 5mph, to get better penetration through the grasses(esp. Switch grass) on low lying C. Thistle.
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Sorghum is a genus the grass family, and would not be affected by a Milestone application, in fact, it may thrive with a Milestone app.

What are your planting plans for next year.


I took this picture on Saturday. This is a woodland plot of established SOG LBS, and several other warm season grasses. Last winter, I broadcast a 100% forb mix into this plot. I had it mowed short. (Like it is now) and broadcast, drug, and cultipacked the seed in in December. I kept it mowed all year and the forbs flourished. What you see in this picture is that the grasses have all gone dormant, but a great number of forbs are still growing, and even flowering (black eyed susans) . I walked my prairie over the weekend also, and it is suprising how many forbs are still green.

20151114_130141.jpg
 
Over the years, I have found no pheasant nests on hill tops with brome grass. The plan is to plant about 10-15 aces of alfalfa. The strips will follow the contour of the hilltops, 40 feet wide, the width of my sprayer. Alfalfa has worked well in the past so I will expand this practice. I will do a couple of limited areas, seeded with kochia, at the end of tree lines. I have keeped a 1 acre area black for the past 2 years and sprayed milestone this past summer. The plan is to plant milestone tolerant Hoary Vervain, Blanket Flower, and Wild Bergamot. Finally, I plan on interseeding a mixture of forbes with small amounts of warm season grasses into a brome grass test area. I will mow the area short throughout the growing season and watch to see what happens next year.

I welcome any thoughts or suggestions.
 
Gone Catch'N said:
Over the years, I have found no pheasant nests on hill tops with brome grass. The plan is to plant about 10-15 aces of alfalfa. The strips will follow the contour of the hilltops, 40 feet wide, the width of my sprayer. Alfalfa has worked well in the past so I will expand this practice. I will do a couple of limited areas, seeded with kochia, at the end of tree lines. I have keeped a 1 acre area black for the past 2 years and sprayed milestone this past summer. The plan is to plant milestone tolerant Hoary Vervain, Blanket Flower, and Wild Bergamot. Finally, I plan on interseeding a mixture of forbes with small amounts of warm season grasses into a brome grass test area. I will mow the area short throughout the growing season and watch to see what happens next year.

I welcome any thoughts or suggestions.
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I would call you sir,a planner!! If your looking for suggestions I will bite. Unless your planting roundup ready alfalfa its going to be tough to spray it. I only say this cause you comment on planting 40 foot strips the width of your sprayer. Conventional alfalfa can't take hardly any chemical and some states are not allowing round up ready alfalfa, yet. I would have to look into that. Maybe some one could help out with that info here.

I had no idea people actually plant Kochia. Your neighbors might not like that. Learn something new everyday. That stuff usually comes up just fine doing nothing.

Once you plant it and actually get a response,, I am not sure I would mow it. Not real sure if your talking about the milestone tolerant planting or your interseeding but either way I would leave it alone. In our experiences mowing seedings has been a waist of time, fuel, people resources and just more hours on equipment. We are planting 400 to 1000 acres of natives at a time so its a little tougher. If its an acre well things are different. Just target the noxious weeds.

Good luck!
 
Wildlife love weeds. Fortunately I do not have to follow some protocol or be commanded from above, I am my own boss. These are limited small areas, 20x30 feet, so my neighbors are not affected by the weed. I do appreciate helpful information or suggestions on how to improve habitat for wildlife.

Getting back to the topic: anyone successfully using milestone at 3oz/acre or less in the fall?, combining surfactants or mixing chemistry to improve synergy?,spraying before a hard frost when temps are in the 32-40 degree range?
 
I agree, it was getting off topic. Thanks for bringing it back. I only got involved because I wanted to point out that not all forbs are dormant at that time of the year, and there would be some collateral damage from the application. I also wanted to question the investment of a forb intervention after a Milestone application because of my experience with the residual. Chris indicated that he had to do what he had to do to get the CT under control, and I understand that.

To answer your question, Applying milestone at 32to 34 degrees would not seem like it would be money well spent... And milestone is expensive! I think the plant needs to be sucking nutrients to the roots in order to effectively wipe it out. It takes warmer weather for that to happen. At 34 the plant is basically shut down.

Residual results may be interesting though
 
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