E-collar help!..

S

ss13

New member
I have a 10 month old started Brittany and am having issues with recall outdoors. His indoor recall is great, but when he's outside, not so much. Indoors he will recall to e-collar and also heel, woah and place (bed) with stimulation. Outside with distraction he will not respond, unless the collar is turned WAY up. I will see his neck pulse on a medium low setting, and he is refusing to recall. I don't believe its overwhelming because if i back off to a lower setting he completely disregards the stimulation when preoccupied by birds or smells. Only when the collar is turned up will he recall.

He's a friendly, willing to please dog and I'm afraid of breaking him. Any suggestions?
 
You say “started” but didn’t clarify if it was by you or someone else. If you had him trained, start by conferring with said trainer on how to proceed. If you are training him, you have a couple options. My recommendation involves rope, prong collar, e-collar, helper(s), praise, and repetition.
 
I'd put the collar away for now. Go back to the basics and put him in a check cord. Once he starts responding to verbal commands without the use of the check cord you can start working the collar back in. It appears you have missed something in his early training. If you haven't had him to a professional trainer you might consider that as an option. Good luck.
 
You might, as Zeb suggested, put the collar away for a bit and work on the dog responding because it makes you (deliriously) happy. Huge, loud, and treat-celebrated occasions when it performs as you desire. You might try what I call "kitchen training," with you in a closed room with the pup, sitting on the floor, with a 6 foot lead on him dragging behind. Toss the dummy, pheasant wing, old knotted-up sock...whatever...out and give the command while pointing at the object and when he goes to it, if he hesitates, take the leash and quietly repeat your command while praising the pup, and gently pull him back. Then praise him excessively. Then again, and again and again. Let him know you are delighted by his accomplishment. He WANTS to please you. Before long you won't need the cord. Keep the sessions short, and end them with a treat. He's pup and wants to please and play.

I got Tinker from a young couple, the husband of which had never had nor trained a dog. When I called to get the year old GWP, the guy confided how he had done everything to get the pup to obey, including using the collar until the battery drained. This is abuse, in my opinion. I took the dog, paid the couple and sent a silent prayer that the guy never had access to a dog ever again.

Tinker is 6 now, and retrieves everything I shoot or throw, and oftentimes brings stuff up to me while I'm reading, just to play.

Relax, slow down, and use enthusiasm and bribes to get cooperation. This is supposed to be fun. He will be your partner for many years.
 
ss13 said:
I have a 10 month old started Brittany and am having issues with recall outdoors. His indoor recall is great, but when he's outside, not so much. Indoors he will recall to e-collar and also heel, woah and place (bed) with stimulation. Outside with distraction he will not respond, unless the collar is turned WAY up. I will see his neck pulse on a medium low setting, and he is refusing to recall. I don't believe its overwhelming because if i back off to a lower setting he completely disregards the stimulation when preoccupied by birds or smells. Only when the collar is turned up will he recall.

He's a friendly, willing to please dog and I'm afraid of breaking him. Any suggestions?
Click to expand...
I agree with everything that Lab, Zeb and Kismet said. Couple of additional thoughts.

I'm not sure if he was "started" by someone else, if he was, I think I would be talking to that person to understand how he introduced the ecollar.
The way I was taught was that the ecollar should be used at the lowest level that the pup feels it. Its easy to tell, just a slight movement from the pup. Then they need to learn how to turn the stimulus off. Kennel is the easiest command for this. Without the collar, using a lead, teach to kennel, using lots of praise and excitement and when they have that down pretty good, introduce collar at lowest level determined above. Give kennel command just a few feet from kennel, as soon as pup enters kennel stop stimulus. Again lots of praise and excitement. This way the pup learns how to turn the stimulus off.
All commands - kennel, heel, here, whoa, fetch should be taught before using ecollar to reinforce.
My experience with this method results in rarely having to use any stimulus at all, a beep is all it usually takes and I think that is the desired end result.
Good luck and as Kismet said go slow.
He should be excited when you turn the ecollar on and hears the beep.
 
Even if you abandon use of the e-collar in the short term you should still put on the collar every time you train. Leave the transmitter off if you want but you will create a collar wise dog if you leave wearing the e-collar out of the equation.
 
ss13 said:
I have a 10 month old started Brittany and am having issues with recall outdoors. His indoor recall is great, but when he's outside, not so much. Indoors he will recall to e-collar and also heel, woah and place (bed) with stimulation. Outside with distraction he will not respond, unless the collar is turned WAY up. I will see his neck pulse on a medium low setting, and he is refusing to recall. I don't believe its overwhelming because if i back off to a lower setting he completely disregards the stimulation when preoccupied by birds or smells. Only when the collar is turned up will he recall.

He's a friendly, willing to please dog and I'm afraid of breaking him. Any suggestions?
Click to expand...
He should be doing all of this without the collar before you introduce stimulation with the collar. Sounds like a confused dog to me. From what you have described, it appears you are trying to teach with the collar and that is not what the collar was intended for. It is a tool to re-enforce what the dog has already learned and gives you the opportunity to instantly correct when a mistake is made and from a distance. You need to shut the collar off and go back and reteach. You will only confuse the dog further be continuing to try and make corrections for something the dog doesn't understand. For some people, probably most, a clicker is a much better tool than an ecollar, especially for teaching.
 
Thanks for the responses. He does know all the commands and executes them darn near perfect in controlled places (inside). This includes e-collar work. Outside he will also obey without distractions around. This includes e collar and whistle commands. It’s when there is a bird or smell that he won’t comply.

The best way I can describe it is, he’s like a 3 year old watching tv. You tell them to do something and they literally don’t hear you. You say their name progressively louder and almost yell before they hear you.

That’s my dog when there’s a bird or smell distracting him.
 
A big part of being an effective trainer is recognizing the particular stimuli that cause your dog to disregard a command. Going back to manual corrections with rope and prong collar and then overlay with e-collar after many manual reps is the fairest way to train the dog. Put your dog in the situation over and over with a way to ensure he complies, when he complies REWARD. The rope is your way to ensure compliance. Even after you start transitioning him back to e-collar corrections, let him drag a rope. Many people are quick to want to ditch the rope... The rope along with correctly timed praise are two of the most effective tools we have as trainers.
 
ss13 said:
Thanks for the responses. He does know all the commands and executes them darn near perfect in controlled places (inside). This includes e-collar work. Outside he will also obey without distractions around. This includes e collar and whistle commands. It’s when there is a bird or smell that he won’t comply.

The best way I can describe it is, he’s like a 3 year old watching tv. You tell them to do something and they literally don’t hear you. You say their name progressively louder and almost yell before they hear you.

That’s my dog when there’s a bird or smell distracting him.
Click to expand...
Well if the 3 year old is ignoring you and you have to yell, your 3 year old has not been taught correctly either. Part of teaching your dog commands is introducing distractions. Like teaching a dog to sit. He gets the treat and sits for second as a 8 week old puppy and gets a treat. Next he has to sit and stay for 10 seconds then gets the treat. Next he sits while you walk around him circling and then gets a treat. By 3 or 4 months of age he sitting and waiting to be released before he gets the retrieve then gets a treat. By 5 or 6 months he is sitting while you have some one throw a mark and fire a shot then gets the retrieve and possibly a treat. By 7 or 8 months he is sitting while you shoot a live flyer over his head then gets the retrieve. Now he is ready to go back and do it all again through collar conditioning. Same with the 3 year old. You teach through progressions whether its a dog or a child. Now go get a clicker and start teaching your dog and put away the collar. Don't be the 3 year old.

 
labrador said:
A big part of being an effective trainer is recognizing the particular stimuli that cause your dog to disregard a command. Going back to manual corrections with rope and prong collar and then overlay with e-collar after many manual reps is the fairest way to train the dog. Put your dog in the situation over and over with a way to ensure he complies, when he complies REWARD. The rope is your way to ensure compliance. Even after you start transitioning him back to e-collar corrections, let him drag a rope. Many people are quick to want to ditch the rope... The rope along with correctly timed praise are two of the most effective tools we have as trainers.
Click to expand...
Great advise. The older I get, I am transitioning away from the collar and using more positive methods of training.
 
The way I understand it (from other post) ss13 has only owned the dog 15 to 20 days.
 
5 stand said:
The way I understand it (from other post) ss13 has only owned the dog 15 to 20 days.
Click to expand...

Correct, it’s been about 3 weeks now. The 3 year old analogy is the easiest way to explain what I’ve experienced, unless that is, you’ve never witnessed a 3 year old completely oblivious to a parent asking them to do something......

He’s a lover and pleaser already. He’s happy to obey commands in a controlled setting. He’ll respond and comply to recall, heel and kennel both verbally and with the collar inside. Again, outside he’ll do all that if there’s no birds around.

He has responded to the prong collar great and I’ll attempt to overlay that in the yard with outside distraction. I was just curious if anyone had experienced what I have.
 
We have all experienced it, some just have a different way of correcting and teaching. So get yourself some pigeons and shackle one. While the bird is moving in the yard, do your obedience with a lead on the dog. Reward the dog with a treat as he does things correctly. When he disobeys, give him a quiet "No" and have him do the drill correctly. With the check cord, the dog is controlled. Then go to the park, where there are people and other things moving around, and work on obedience. Once the dog is reliable in all situations, then began collar conditioning. But don't punish for something he doesn't know. If you punish a 3 year old for something he doesn't know, he will never learn it, and have resent meant to you. Same with your dog. You convince the dog that pleasing you is the best thing he can do, same with the 3 year old. I teach over 300 elementary age children everyday by the way. My students are very compliant and eager to please. I don't really discipline, but teach and talk with them when they make mistakes. A very positive atmosphere where the expectations are understood everyday makes for a happy classroom. It is the same with dog training.

Your using the prong collar, your using the ecollar. But both things are not fun for the dog. Through positive re-enforcement, you will have an eager dog that can't take his eyes off you. Then you become a team. That will allow him to take discipline and correction with a positive attitude. If you have only had the dog for a few weeks, you are moving way to quickly. What he has learned from someone will be different from what you want to teach. He is confused and not comfortable yet. Have some fun with dog for a while, then make basic obedience fun for him. Once the bond is build, you will have a reliable hunting companion that wants to work for you. But not in a couple of weeks, and definitely not with e collar corrections. You have had 3 very experienced dog owners tell you to put away the collar. It's up to you how you proceed.
 
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On a young dog just use vibrate continuously until you get what you want then shut it off. Try not to shock your dog as much as you can. Vibrate does wonders. Just have to figure out how to use it.
 
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