commercialization

matto

Well-known member
I'll enjoy it while it lasts -- however I do see myself moving someday when the push for commercialization championed by our gov himself has turned our state into a Texas soley pay to play clone or the high prices for commodities have turned the farmfields into a chemically modified muck that would make the CEO of Monsanto or ADM brim with an ear to ear smile.

This is an excerpt from one of KsHusker?s posts to the thread about Brownback?s plan to release LPCs. I?m posting it here as an introduction to a different topic.

All of us lament the loss of habitat. Kansas is losing CRP acres like every other state. One of my farmer contacts who lets me hunt has converted 3 quarters of CRP back to production in the last five years. He has also converted 3 out of 4 ?corners? around a pivot from CRP back to production.

What?s worse, land under cultivation does not provide the habitat that it did years ago because of changed farming practices. Wheat stubble is shorter than it used to be. Wheat stubble has fewer weeds than it used to. There is less wheat stubble come hunting season than there used to be. Fence lines are gone. Hedgerows have gotten mature enough that there is very little understory. Most of the flint hills gets burned and intensively grazed every year.

We all know the reason for these changes is economics. Farmers and ranchers need to make a living like everyone else. Like almost everyone else, they are constantly looking for ways to improve their economic situation. I don?t propose to discuss whether these practices are in fact the best path to maximizing production. There are plenty of people who are far more qualified to discuss that issue than me. The point is that farmers and ranchers do what they do because they believe that?s the path to economic success. There is economic value in cattle gains and in bushels.

The farmers, ranchers, and other landowners who participate here (and certainly others who don?t) are willing to sacrifice some production in the name of conservation, but they are the exception. They deserve high praise from those of us who are not producers.

Consider again the rest of the farmers and ranchers, those whose internal math balancing wildlife and their own wallet is different. Speaking only for me, I understand what they?re doing and why. I don?t judge or criticize them in any way for pursuing economic success.

The reason I quoted KsHusker above is that I think part of the issue is that a wild pheasant has no economic value to the producer. If the birds had value to the producer, ie, if they were ?commercialized? in some way, would that have positive impacts on habitat and population?

I understand this might generate a lot of controversy. This post is not about advocating commercialization. We all miss the days when pheasants were plentiful and permission was as easy to get as a polite smile, some common courtesy, a little small talk, and an earnest thank you.
This post is about starting a discussion of whether commercialization is a means of slowing or eliminating the disappearance of habitat (and therefore birds).
 
We will be just like England. Basically, preserves, where tame or semi-tame birds, wander the foreign habitat, like confused chicken, peeking at the weird man with a dog and a gun, (why doesn't he have chicken chow?). Habitat would be key, and valuable because it is a finite resource used by a large group of people. It is financially rewarding, ( sort of), it's a lot of work, like a marina, resort, etc. usually minimum wage would be high pay. The idea that it gets credence in an economic debate is humorous. I doubt commercial hunting will "reform" the world as an economic engine, and I doubt that will save upland hunting, surely not the scope and participation of the past. Still, it might be all we can do, in a very regretful path.
 
I'm glad someone immortalized my post before it was deleted. :cheers:


Pheasants, if they were commercialized here as in SD would be a larger revenue generator than deer. However many are so enthralled with deer and their antler porn that this species is where the majority of commercialization monies go to here.



As you said economics are the primary driver. What I think would have more of an impact than commercialization is to get rid of subsidies, and charge the premiums for crop insurance that should be truly charged - stop giving someone an incentive to plant dryland corn in western KS in May 2012 or for that matter putting something in the ground that really doesnt have a chance in hell at making it just to play the system. Based on my limited knowledge of how the crop insurance game works - some of it is outright fraud and welfare.

Eliminate stuff like that, maybe some of the land that IMO really makes no economic sense to be farming will go out of production again.


I have no idea what the true solution is other than I do not think full blown commercialization will solve a thing. I'd never live in Texas for this reason. I think the monies we currently have in the system for wildlife purposes could be spent more efficiently than they are now.
 
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Immortalized? afraid not.
This is a good and worthwhile subject.
Keep politics out of it. :cheers:
 
Now I know why some posts have "?" instead of apostrophes. Evidently that's a result of cut-and-paste from MS Word.

Back to the topic, KS Husker does raise another possibility: shifting the economics through reforming government ag policy. I'm not an expert on ag policy. I know little about crop insurance, price supports, subsidies, etc. and have only a cursory familiarity with CRP. However, I'm generally in favor of less government involvement instead of more.

Where are wild quail doing the best? In Texas, where they are commercialized through extensive leasing.

Where are wild pheasants doing the best? In SD, where they are "commercialized" through a variety of means.

Where are large animals in Africa doing the worst? In Kenya and other nations where they have no commercial value.

Where are large animals in Africa doing well? In nations with an active safari industry.
 
Politics are a part of wildlife conservation. Now if the forum wants no comments on whether a person is an R, D, I, L, etc., that is fine and I agree that those comments belong in another forum that allows such, but bottom line there are elected officials(politicians) that are making decisions that affect our wildlife populations, our hunting, trapping and fishing. I have offered suggestions, thoughts and criticism on this forum of various things such as CRP, farm programs, farmers, ranchers, irrigation, hunters, poachers, USDA, bird dogs, etc. and will continue to do so unless I am banned from this fine group.

This is a great forum and I value and appreciate it very much.
 
Maynard,

You are one of the producers who cares about wildlife and who manages production in a way that addresses the needs of wildlife. I'm sure it limits production to some degree. I'm glad you do it that way, and I wish more of your peers did the same.

If you don't mind, comment on this: how much do typical producers care about wildlife? Would they be open to a shift in their income source from bushels and weight gains to tresspass fees or lease income? In other words, how would they react to a pitch like this:

"Makes these changes to your farming practices. You'll make a little less money selling bushels and beef, but you'll end up the same, or perhaps better, through tresspass fees, lease income, etc."
 
In my area the "typical producer" cares little about wildlife. There is only a small percentage that even hunt. There are some that will host family and friends for the opener, but that is about it. I think most have tunnel vision which may come in part due to tremendous debt service, that all they think about is production. South Dakota farmers have seen trespass fees for pheasant hunting as another cash crop, but so far not many southwest Kansas farmers have.

Now some have gotten on the deer lease band wagon. I don't know what they might be receiving, but it is a chance for them to get some extra money and many farmers don't like having deer around in the first place, so it is a win-win for them. The Walk In Hunting Area program, especially on CRP acres has been well received. It gives the landowner enough money to pay the real estate taxes on the property.

Bottom line, I would not expect any farmers/ranchers I know to adopt my methods of land/wildlife stewardship.
 
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I'm glad someone immortalized my post before it was deleted. :cheers:

LOL! :D



Based on my limited knowledge of how the crop insurance game works - some of it is outright fraud and welfare.

Acording to one website, in 2012 farmers paid premiums that were about one-third of the actual cost of the insurance, the taxpayer picking up the other two-thirds.
 
In my area the "typical producer" cares little about wildlife. There is only a small percentage that even hunt. There are some that will host family and friends for the opener, but that is about it.
This is my anecdotal experience as well.
 
Now I know why some posts have "?" instead of apostrophes. Evidently that's a result of cut-and-paste from MS Word.

Back to the topic, KS Husker does raise another possibility: shifting the economics through reforming government ag policy. I'm not an expert on ag policy. I know little about crop insurance, price supports, subsidies, etc. and have only a cursory familiarity with CRP. However, I'm generally in favor of less government involvement instead of more.

Where are wild quail doing the best? In Texas, where they are commercialized through extensive leasing.

Where are wild pheasants doing the best? In SD, where they are "commercialized" through a variety of means.

Where are large animals in Africa doing the worst? In Kenya and other nations where they have no commercial value.

Where are large animals in Africa doing well? In nations with an active safari industry.

Never a more true statement. Many on here want to hold onto the " bygones of yesteryear". Not me. I too grew up shooting limits of quail in southeast kansas, and limits of pheasants in western kansas. Most of it done with a please and a thank you. I believe it takes a combination. Habitat will NEVER be what it once was. What can happen is farmers, with some incentive, will leave and farm with the birds in mind. I hunt an area in SD that is a ways west of the big " pay to play" operations. There is a good mecca of pheasant land that is probably 10-12 square miles or so. We hunt a fairly large piece of maybe 10k acres. The farmers around him also run some hunters through. All of them leave some for the birds. My guy is the only one that plants any food plots. There is one full blown commercial operation in the area. The hunting is getting better every year. Two years ago was epic, last year because of the cold spring it was tougher but still limits were available everyday. This year is shaping up to be like two years ago. What he has done has made all the property around him better. I will assure you all the properties around u-guide, haymaker and some of the others on here are better because of the work they do to make sure the pheasants have a chance. I for one don't mind laying a little out to help offset my guy's expense for what he does. He isn't getting rich off of it, and to this point he isn't greedy about it.
 
I know a few retiring baby boomers who have bought 40-100 acres and have used it as a hobby farm. I was hoping it would become a trend, but I don't think it has or will.:(

Too bad... A section of land with 6 or 12 hobby farms on it would have a lot of edge and a lot of diversity. I think it would be great for all wildlife, and for the people brave enough to take on the challenge.

Unfortunately it seems like people want to live and retire between the golf course and the grocery store, and would rather have 1/4 acre of immaculate lawn instead of a weedy 40 acres with a garden, some chickens and a cow or two. Not me, I'll take the space, but most people...
 
I live in a city back east and I hunt Montana and MO and this year I will Hunt KS. In MO and KS I will be and have already paid one of the self hunting outfits. In MT I hunt public land. I have never been able to secure private property on my own to hunt. When you have a week or two to hunt it is nice to hit the ground running and maybe do a little scouting. I think the pay to hunt way is the only thing keeping upland bird hunting going right now. Even the free public land in MT is kept going by pay to use to landowners. Public land has not been managed well because the number of hunters is not controlled as well as other matters on the land even though they say it is. When the private landowner gets involved for money weather it be through the state or private company it seems that is where things are working out best.

I spend several thousand dollars hunting in other states on food , hotels, gas etc. The local business owners should be involved in pushing good game management as an attraction to their business no matter what it is.

I enjoy this forum and love to read the comments by you guys who live and farm the area. Hope to be out there this season searching for quail.
Thanks
 
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