Chokes matter?

T

Tomahawker

Active member
They did this morning. Went to a pheasant preserve with my 16 yr old son. He hasn’t shot at a bird since Thanksgiving and he’s so so on his shooting. This morning he’s hitting everything, pheasants and quail, in front behind and sideways. Didn’t matter where, he was putting them down. I’m loving it grinning ear to ear. Get back to the truck and look at his 20 gauge Lefever when I realize he grabbed my grouse gun, which is identical to his pheasant gun except…it’s choked cylinder/improved cylinder as opposed to modified/full. Food for thought.
 
I use IC all season in my 12 gauge auto, all the way to late Jan…all my doubles are skt1/skt2…straight aways are the exception, but they’re tough with most set ups…
 
I've heard today's shells are powerful enough to use more open chokes. and pattern tighter too.
 
Patterning helps with these questions…anybody that comes to hunt in my camp, and wants advice, will use #5 lead and IC…if toxic is legal. Or IC/M….I’d suggest IC/IC if they had 2 IC tubes…or skt/IC
 
Tomahawker said:
They did this morning. Went to a pheasant preserve with my 16 yr old son. He hasn’t shot at a bird since Thanksgiving and he’s so so on his shooting. This morning he’s hitting everything, pheasants and quail, in front behind and sideways. Didn’t matter where, he was putting them down. I’m loving it grinning ear to ear. Get back to the truck and look at his 20 gauge Lefever when I realize he grabbed my grouse gun, which is identical to his pheasant gun except…it’s choked cylinder/improved cylinder as opposed to modified/full. Food for thought.
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As far as hitting birds? Nope, open choke will not make you hit more birds unless you are really bad at shooting and are "missing" everything and just catching them with the edge of the pattern to begin with. Usually these are cripples.

You still have the same roughly 30" pattern whether you shoot full or cyl. Pattern density is what changes with chokes, the cyl choke is going to hold a nice tight pattern with lead shot to about 20-25 yards, IC to 30, mod to 35. This is with lead shot and you should always double check. Without proper pattern density, you are playing a luck game hoping none of the holes are where the vitals are when your pattern meets the bird.

In the case of preserves, im guessing your shots are all under 30 yards with slower flying birds so yeah choke (pattern) wont matter too much.
 
I’m no expert, but have done lots of non-scientific patterning…at 20 or 25 yards, it seems to me my patterns are larger with more open chokes vs tighter chokes…maybe I was seeing what I wanted to see. Dunno. I‘m not a great shot on clays, or birds, perhaps, but I do well with more open chokes…maybe a confidence thing? From early Sept to late Jan, I hunt 40-50 days in ND/SD…do the math on birds…rare to not get 3 daily, be it sharpies, huns, roosters…or a combo of 2-3 of them. lots of shots under 20 yards, wouldn’t want to shoot M, IM, or tighter at those ranges. Whatever works. I like open chokes. There are some guys here who have done extensive patterning, and share their results…a real commitment, and quite impressive. I’ll defer to their results, I’m a hack who has little data to back up my opinions…other than a 100+ birds per season…but I don’t believe I’m necessarily optimizing the choices out there…if forced to pick chokes forever, right now, I‘d stick with IC for a single choke…or skt1/skt2 for a double.
 
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Tomahawker said:
Geez, I bet your a blast at parties.
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You asked a question (chokes matter?), i answered. You must not have liked that answer, sorry.

You probably will hate this too. I just noticed you said birds were flying towards him. These are the easiest of all to kill as all vitals are exposed on the shot and no lead is necessary, so yeah any gun/choke should do.

Im guessing he shot so well because that "wrong" gun he grabbed fits him better. Have you done any gun fitting and patterning with him?
 
KE, you make some great points but I doubt he meant every bird flew right at the kid. I'm guessing he meant "flew his way."

Apart from ducks I did not get into this stuff until about 25 years ago, but I've killed a lot of pheasants and grouse since then, and I used to be sort of a fanatic about patterning. While I am the first to admonish that chokes give you only a few more inches of pattern width when most misses are by at least a few feet, to me there is no question that very open chokes do help bring down more birds, especially with shooters who aren't that good.

Just about any time you see a bunch of feathers knocked off a bird inside 25 yards, but he flies away (probably to die a slow death over the next 24 hours), it is a good bet that barrel was choked too tight for that shooter, and had it had a SK or IC choke, it would have been a downed bird. I often have to clean my birds and others' and I am frequently surprised at how few pellets (to the chest, head or wing-bone) it took to bring down that wild rooster. A couple to the chest will often do it.

Of course, you better have a darn good recovery dog if you are going to hunt that way, because a lot of those birds are going to hit the ground running for cover. However, good recovery dogs are a whole lot more common out there than good pheasant shots, IME.
 
I’m a modified man. Went IC early last season then switched to modified, couldn’t really tell a difference so this year just stuck with M. The guys I hunt with are fast shooters so I do have to shoot fast causing a couple of my birds to be a bit messy. If I give myself time and am relaxed M works just fine
 
Over the past 25+ years, I’ve hosted 100+ hunters, probably double that. It’s common for guys to show up and not know what choke is in their gun…and, not know what they’ve got for shells…even fairly experienced hunters. Many are frugal, and shooting up what they’ve got before buying more ammo…lots of 7.5 lead, 6 steel, crap like that…😡😡😡😡 I end up helping look for crippled birds…happy to, but frustrating when no thought goes into their gun/choke/ammo choice. Before the hunt, I give my 2 cent advice, and offer to sell suitable shells if I have some…guys will commonly listen.
 
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Bob Peters said:
There's still a lead requirement, think about it.
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Shot 2 straight-on last trip…came out of cedars that were being pushed, I was a flanker…I absolutely didn’t put the bead on the birds…held well in front of the birds, even though they were coming right at me…they were rising as they came at me…
 
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Tomahawker said:
It was noticeable today. And on top of it all, it seemed every bird we got up flew toward him and he dropped em one after the other. I’m one proud papa.
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Good for your son and you! Experiences like this are priceless and will go a long way to keep him hunting with you, long in the future.
Might be a little late for your son to ask Santa for a couple of new chokes. :)
 
the chokes in my A400 Xtreme shoot tight. Almost like 1 choke tighter. I normally use LM or M for pheasant. But If I was taking it, I would start with IC.

I like IC/M in my 16 ga and I bought an Ithaca/SKS sxs 20 ga with IC/M barrels. I use LM in my Beretta 20 ga A300. I would probably use Mod in my 28.

I like IC or C for any gauge on quail and dove.
 
benelli-banger said:
I’m no expert, but have done lots of non-scientific patterning…at 20 or 25 yards, it seems to me my patterns are larger with more open chokes vs tighter chokes…maybe I was seeing what I wanted to see. Dunno. I‘m not a great shot on clays, or birds, perhaps, but I do well with more open chokes…maybe a confidence thing?
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benelli-banger said:
There are some guys here who have done extensive patterning, and share their results…a real commitment, and quite impressive. I’ll defer to their results, I’m a hack who has little data to back up my opinions…other than a 100+ birds per season…but I don’t believe I’m necessarily optimizing the choices out there…if forced to pick chokes forever, right now, I‘d stick with IC for a single choke…or skt1/skt2 for a double.
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Here are a few of my 20ga pattern numbers for your consideration to choke performance.

Pattern results from a 20-gauge Browning Citori with 28" Invector-plus barrels using Briley flush chokes (patterns average of five, 30" post-shot scribed circle, yardage taped muzzle to target, and in-shell pellet count average of five).

30 YARDS / CYL
Rem Sureshot 2 3/4" 1 oz #7 ½ lead (349 pellets) / pattern 179 (51%)
Reload (STS, Blue Dot) 2 3/4" 1 oz #6 lead (233 pellets) / pattern 129 (55%)

30 YARDS / SK
Rem Sureshot 2 3/4" 1 oz #7 ½ lead (349 pellets) / pattern 221 (63%)
Reload (STS, Blue Dot) 2 3/4" 1 oz #6 lead (233 pellets) / pattern 147 (63%)

30 YARDS / IC
Rem Sureshot 2 3/4" 1 oz #7 ½ lead (349 pellets) / pattern 249 (71%)
Reload (STS, Blue Dot) 2 3/4" 1 oz #6 lead (233 pellets) / pattern 168 (72%)

30 YARDS / M
Rem Sureshot 2 3/4" 1 oz #7 ½ lead (349 pellets) / pattern 298 (85%)
Reload (STS, Blue Dot) 2 3/4" 1 oz #6 lead (233 pellets) / pattern 200 (86%)

40 YARDS / IM
Rem Sureshot 2 3/4" 1 oz #7 ½ lead (349 pellets) / pattern 221 (63%)
Reload (STS, Blue Dot) 2 3/4" 1 oz #6 lead (233 pellets) / pattern 163 (70%)

40 YARDS / LF
Rem Sureshot 2 3/4" 1 oz #7 ½ lead (349 pellets) / pattern 231 (66%)
Reload (STS, Blue Dot) 2 3/4" 1 oz #6 lead (233 pellets) / pattern 164 (70%)

40 YARDS / F
Rem Sureshot 2 3/4" 1 oz #7 ½ lead (349 pellets) / pattern 243 (70%)
Reload (STS, Blue Dot) 2 3/4" 1 oz #6 lead (233 pellets) / pattern 159 (68%)

40 YARDS / XF
Rem Sureshot 2 3/4" 1 oz #7 ½ lead (349 pellets) / pattern 247 (71%)
Reload (STS, Blue Dot) 2 3/4" 1 oz #6 lead (233 pellets) / pattern 171 (73%)
 
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