Calling all grouse hunters

[1pheas4]

My setters have almost a feline look to them when they're on the hunt like that. Poetry in motion!QUOTE]

I grouse hunted behind a friends Setter a few years back. That dog glides through the cover. Nice dogs to watch work.

Nick

 

[1pheas4]

My setters have almost a feline look to them when they're on the hunt like that. Poetry in motion!QUOTE]

I grouse hunted behind a friends Setter a few years back. That dog glides through the cover. Nice dogs to watch work. I like the personality on Setters too. They seem to have a gentle spirit to them. At least the one's I've seen.

Nick

 

[FCSpringer]

I would be wary of this as she may think this is what you are really after, my pup would flash point dickie birds but I just encouraged her to keep moving. I'm no scent expert and one bird may smell the same as the next but I have never rewarded any of my dogs for pointing anything other than the birds i'm looking to harvest. I have had skunks, rabbits, turkeys, deer, sick fox, mice and the fast moving turtle all pointed at one time or another and I have just acted like nothing happen except with the skunk.....my dogs learned a few new terms.... I would check with your RGS guys and see if any members near you have pigeons and if so if you could train with them. Regarding spring migration check with your local state wildlife biologist and see if they can help you with timing of the woodcock return. Here is a link to follow the migration back north, you can also following the fall migration on this site as well. www.ruffedgrousesociety.org/woodcockmigration#.VPdhX6Mo7cs

I agree. You could dabble with it as a little pup I guess. Having them gamey on anything I say early. But yes I would proceed with caution. Just get some cheap pigeons or go catch your own as said here. I know for a fact tweety birds we call them LOL. do have another scent. Game birds are another. My dogs will look quick at any tweety and know, no bird, back to work. Game bird, game on. Otherwise they would have chased everything out there non stop. And sure puppies do. But when they are taught the business, they don't blink an eye at tweety any more.:thumbsup: Doves and pigeons are like game birds. Why they are so popular for training. Added to availability. You can catch them all over the US.

 

[chewi004]

I agree. You could dabble with it as a little pup I guess. Having them gamey on anything I say early. But yes I would proceed with caution. Just get some cheap pigeons or go catch your own as said here. I know for a fact tweety birds we call them LOL. do have another scent. Game birds are another. My dogs will look quick at any tweety and know, no bird, back to work. Game bird, game on. Otherwise they would have chased everything out there non stop. And sure puppies do. But when they are taught the business, they don't blink an eye at tweety any more.:thumbsup: Doves and pigeons are like game birds. Why they are so popular for training. Added to availability. You can catch them all over the US.

With this being my first dog, that is one thing I was surprisingly shocked at. She doesn't pay a bit of attention to song birds. Now dont be fooled, when I let her out in the mornings she loves to see what birds are in her yard, but she shows no interest in them. It's more of like a "hey I found you" ordeal. We were walking

I have tons of pigeons on my farm, maybe I should consider catching them. Don't know much about it but it sounds kind of fun...guess ill have to read more about it.

 

[chewi004]

Woodcock migrate at the same time as robins. In spring watch for flocks of robins in the yard. The woodcock are moving through at the same time. Similarly in fall, when I see flocks of robins I'm itching to get out to my favorite spots.

I hunt woodcock, grouse and pheasants. I can often tell whether he's pointing a woodcock or grouse based on his posture. It's been this way my last 3 setters. Low, crouching point is woodcock. Grouse will often be standing taller, I believe because he's getting body scent of the bird on the breeze from farther away. I've had people call BS on this, then demonstrate it in the field. Tell them as we walk in it will be a woodcock. If a grouse I don't talk, just hand signal, as grouse will flush to human voice.

I love watching him work pheasants in the tall grass, bob and weave using the wind to locate and pin running birds. My setters have almost a feline look to them when they're on the hunt like that. Poetry in motion!

Woodcock will hold so tight I've stomped around for minutes trying to flush. Grouse are spooky. Often run into cover and bust out when you least expect. Except for young birds early season. But they require a dog to lock up tight and hold, doesn't matter the distance. Creeping will bust birds and screw up your chance.

Lots of good information there Rick. I have heard that about the robins and woodcock before too. What does your favorite spot look like to you Rick?

P.S. I am from very far away so I'm not coming for it!

 

[Ranger Rick]

Chew: My favorite spots change constantly due to maturing timber. I'm always on the lookout for new aspen clearcuts with tag alder edges, then watch them as they grow. 5-6 years after a cut they begin to have the condition described by MIforester, you can't fall over without hitting a tree. Many times getting though the cover reguires twisting the upper torso, shotgun at a tight quarter arms, bird flush, you swing on it and hit a tree with your barrel.

By 12 years, or so, these stands are no longer good woodcock habitat. They are weak walkers and require a shaded canopy with nothing but a carpet of leaves. Prior to 5-6 years old and once the trees begin to mature, sunlight reaching the ground allows grasses, etc. to grow.

3 dogs ago I hunted a lot of tag alder patches along streams. These stands are now overmature, falling in on themselves and sporting a growth of tall grasses. No longer good bird habitat.

My deer stand is on the back edge of a 40 year old clearcut, against the edge of a big cedar swamp. 4 into 3 dogs ago, I hammered the woodcock and grouse in there. The potholes were filled with water and I'd make circles around them for woodcock. As the timber grew, they sucked up the groundwater, leaving the potholes largely dry. For years I never failed to get a grouse in there. Now the trees are 10"-12" at breast height and good for hanging a tree stand. There are grouse in there, but scattered. It's now an early season grouse spot, because in the older timber I can possibly get a shot while leaves are on. Part of it I never hunt because the fira re so thick you never even get a glimpse of the departing grouse. Once leaves start to fall I no longer go there.

I've got two favorite spots now. One we've been hunting for 3 years, the other 2. Both have good edges along tag alders. There are several that are 1-3 years old that I'm watching. My setter, Max, is 4 years old and these are spots we'll be hunting hard as he gets old.

My wife says Max is our last dog, as she wants more freedom to travel, without being burdened by a pet, when we retire. We'll be retiring right about the time I expect to lose Max to old age. It would be a perfect time to train a new pup, with no limitations on time because of work and more time to spend in the woods in the fall. The argument is far from over and I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. In the meantime, Max and I are going to continue the chase.

 

[Miforester]

My wife says Max is our last dog, as she wants more freedom to travel, without being burdened by a pet, when we retire. We'll be retiring right about the time I expect to lose Max to old age. It would be a perfect time to train a new pup, with no limitations on time because of work and more time to spend in the woods in the fall. The argument is far from over and I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. In the meantime, Max and I are going to continue the chase.

Rick, sounds like a pup would make the perfect retirement gift for yourself:thumbsup::10sign::cheers:

 

[chewi004]

I have spent a lot of time in the woods here in the Shenandoah Valley of VA, and we have very little to no habitat like you are describing. I know of very little to no aspen or tag alders in our woods. We do not have many young stands either. I do know our RGS chapter has done some work in Highland county, but I am yet to check it out. Where I live, I am mostly in the mature, hardwoods, mountains. Lots of mountain laurel though...

As far as your dog and wife go, you could always have a friend watch the dog while you are traveling? What you should do is get a "rescue" dog (not really a rescue, but how could your wife turn down giving an abused pup a home?) about 6 months before you tell your wife your retiring . I hope you get another dog; I cannot imagine just one day not having a dog anymore after so many years.

 

[Miforester]

I have tons of pigeons on my farm, maybe I should consider catching them. Don't know much about it but it sounds kind of fun...guess ill have to read more about it.

Chewi: you have a free source of birds and probably room to run your pup, I would trap the pigeons and use them as your training source. Then you have the option of just working the dog over them and using a blank pistol or live gun. I would love to have the pigeon resource you have, i'm fortunate my hunting buddy has raised pigeons and they home so we go a few miles away train dogs and pigeons usually beat us back to his house when we are done.

 

[Miforester]

I have spent a lot of time in the woods here in the Shenandoah Valley of VA, and we have very little to no habitat like you are describing. I know of very little to no aspen or tag alders in our woods. We do not have many young stands either. I do know our RGS chapter has done some work in Highland county, but I am yet to check it out. Where I live, I am mostly in the mature, hardwoods, mountains. Lots of mountain laurel though...

As far as your dog and wife go, you could always have a friend watch the dog while you are traveling? What you should do is get a "rescue" dog (not really a rescue, but how could your wife turn down giving an abused pup a home?) about 6 months before you tell your wife your retiring . I hope you get another dog; I cannot imagine just one day not having a dog anymore after so many years.

I would focus on thick cover that borders or parallels streams and or major roads as woodcock use these as part of there navigation. Stem density and soils are the important part not specific tree species. It could be lowland hardwood species or lowland conifers. Just think doghair thick trees along creeks and roads and you should have a good chance at woodcock. Check and see if any of your RGS buddies are woodcock banders and go with them as they band this spring/summer you will get an idea of some of the cover the woodcock are using in your area. Keep in mind that nesting cover is not always the same as the cover they are using during the fall migration.

 

[chewi004]

Chewi: you have a free source of birds and probably room to run your pup, I would trap the pigeons and use them as your training source. Then you have the option of just working the dog over them and using a blank pistol or live gun. I would love to have the pigeon resource you have, i'm fortunate my hunting buddy has raised pigeons and they home so we go a few miles away train dogs and pigeons usually beat us back to his house when we are done.

When I say we have alot, usually there are anywhere from 5-10 that hang around our silos. Sometimes they will disappear for awhile too though and you may not see them for a few weeks. Been awhile since I paid much attention to them. Looks like I have some research to do on how to catch pigeons!

And you are correct MIforester...I am blessed with an abundance of land to work my dog on, and its only a short drive from my house. It is mostly fescue pasture lands and hay fields, but none the less its wide open for her to run.

 

[chewi004]

Here is a pic of some of our fields. As far as you can see, we farm. I run my dogs here all the time. This is also one of my favorite places to ground hog hunt. This pic is taken from atop one of our barns. As you can see the mountains are only a few miles away. Here in the Valley we are surrounded by mountains in every direction.

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[chewi004]

What shells do you guys like when targeting woodcock/grouse? What size shot?

I am going to pick up my new 20 gauge today, and would like to pattern some different shells. With my 12 ga it seems hard to beat a good 3" of 7 1/2 no matter whether Im shooting rabbits, doves, preserve birds, or squirrels. I have always had good results with 7 1/2's

 

[Miforester]

What shells do you guys like when targeting woodcock/grouse? What size shot?

I am going to pick up my new 20 gauge today, and would like to pattern some different shells. With my 12 ga it seems hard to beat a good 3" of 7 1/2 no matter whether Im shooting rabbits, doves, preserve birds, or squirrels. I have always had good results with 7 1/2's

I shoot 2 3/4" either 7.5 or 8's low brass, I use both for grouse and woodcock. Usually 8's frirst shot 7.5 second. Early season with leaves still on I shoot 7.5 6's still low brass.