Calling all grouse hunters

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I have hunted with Labs mostly. My daisy is now 13.5 years old and no longer hunts. She was a very good flushing dog. She stayed close. She wasn't great at retrieving but she located the downed birds. I have hunted with other people's dogs but i don't care if you have the grand champion of all dogs, if they go out too far, you are better off hunting without a dog.
 
Grousechaser said:
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I have hunted with Labs mostly. My daisy is now 13.5 years old and no longer hunts. She was a very good flushing dog. She stayed close. She wasn't great at retrieving but she located the downed birds. I have hunted with other people's dogs but i don't care if you have the grand champion of all dogs, if they go out too far, you are better off hunting without a dog.
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I know that is one of my dog's weak spots right now. She likes to run big in the woods. Now if we get to a spot that is real thick and looks "grousey" I can keep her look, but it takes alot of me working her to do do (I have to constantly call her and remind her to stay close). She will then work the area over well and move on to roaming more open. This is something I want to concentrate on this summer with her.
 
Thanks a lot Milforester for all the good info.

How do you keep you dogs sharp in the offseason? I just worry that where I live i will never be able to put enough wild grouse/woodcock in front of her to make her a good grouse dog and keep her sharp. When I take her to the preserve she does great (ran a little big but held very solid on points), when I plant wings and work her she also does great.

I anticipate getting some quail this upcoming season and keeping lots of those in front of her. I just can't afford to go to a game preserve all the time, and I never have been a waterfowler. Guess it's a good thing i just enjoy watching her work...I just don't have the heart to tell her there aint many birds around. Or maybe there is and it is just a matter of time before we start to locate them :)
 
Training

Early on my Buddy and I trained Daisy using pigeons that we would swing and then plant for her to key in on. One time 5 of us bought a bunch of chukars and did the same thing. It seemed to work great. When she was young and I knocked a grouse down Daisy ran up to it and tried to grab it but the bird had a lot of life left and just let her have it with her wings. After that she was shy about picking the bird up and that bad memory lasted her whole life. She still flushed a lot of birds and she enjoyed it. Me too.
 
chewi004 said:
Thanks a lot Milforester for all the good info.

How do you keep you dogs sharp in the offseason? I just worry that where I live i will never be able to put enough wild grouse/woodcock in front of her to make her a good grouse dog and keep her sharp. When I take her to the preserve she does great (ran a little big but held very solid on points), when I plant wings and work her she also does great.

I anticipate getting some quail this upcoming season and keeping lots of those in front of her. I just can't afford to go to a game preserve all the time, and I never have been a waterfowler. Guess it's a good thing i just enjoy watching her work...I just don't have the heart to tell her there aint many birds around. Or maybe there is and it is just a matter of time before we start to locate them :)
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For off season training, I have a hunting buddy who has pigeons and we run dogs weekly on planted pigeons. The more contact your dog can get with any game bird will help. Understand about the preserves and cost. Check and see if you have a local chapter of Ruffed Grouse Society, you will find guys to train with I'm sure. The other thing about preserves is check and see if they will let you hunt birds that others have purchased but not shot.......could be an option.
 
Miforester said:
For off season training, I have a hunting buddy who has pigeons and we run dogs weekly on planted pigeons. The more contact your dog can get with any game bird will help. Understand about the preserves and cost. Check and see if you have a local chapter of Ruffed Grouse Society, you will find guys to train with I'm sure. The other thing about preserves is check and see if they will let you hunt birds that others have purchased but not shot.......could be an option.
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Funny that you should make those (2) suggestions...

1) I have been trying my a$$ off to get a hold of the RGS and cannot get an email response from anyone (local or not). Kind of surprising to me...

2)One of the local preserves actually said for $50 a day I can come up and use their pigeons, and bird launchers all day for training...not to bad I didn't think. The other preserves will also let me come hunt (since I have my own dog) other peoples birds. They also said next time to bring a box and they will sell me some of their birds for training. I spent saturday making a bird hauling box...
 
chewi004 said:
Funny that you should make those (2) suggestions...

1) I have been trying my a$$ off to get a hold of the RGS and cannot get an email response from anyone (local or not). Kind of surprising to me...

2)One of the local preserves actually said for $50 a day I can come up and use their pigeons, and bird launchers all day for training...not to bad I didn't think. The other preserves will also let me come hunt (since I have my own dog) other peoples birds. They also said next time to bring a box and they will sell me some of their birds for training. I spent saturday making a bird hauling box...
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Sorry to hear you are having issues with RGS and yes I agree that is surprising. Another avenue would be to see if there is a local club of your hunting dog or similar breed, along those lines to would be to work or enter your dog into some cover dog field trials again just for bird exposure.

Not a bad price for training, if you are so inclined you might think about getting pigeon chicks and train them to home in on your home/pigeon coop. Then you can use them for training and they will return home after they are flushed.....assuming they don't get preyed upon....My hunting buddy has pigeons and we have a "bird field" not to far from his house we use in the off season and right now we just plant birds around his house and run the dogs on those.....in my opinion every bit helps. A lot of options out there it is just a matter of how involved you want to get....
 
We have similar cover to that which Miforester hunts. A lot of our aspen stands have balsam fir in the understory. It helps to hunt in pairs. The grouse will run underneath a couple fir, using them for escape cover. Don on point, one guy left, one right of the fir. Usually one will get a decent shot.

Grouse are fidgety and will spook on human voice. Thus, it helps for the pair of guys to know each other and what to expect. I've hunted with a few people that never caught on, despite attempts to teach them. One such guy would go stand next to the dog while I went around the clump. The birds would go out where he should have been.

One time as I'm moving around the fir I twist my ankle on some rocks and go down hard. I'm laying on the ground in pain and can hear the grouse clucking about 15' away. They went out one at a time, while he stood back by the dog with his finger up his ass. After a number of these incidents, and one unsafe act by him, I decided not to invite him anymore.
 
chewi004 said:
You talk about the woodcock's flight. I have been doing some reading on that and it appears VA (where I am located) is part of the woodcocks "wintering" range. I am assuming they come here once it gets real cold up north and just hang tight until it starts to warm up, then head back north? When can we expect them? I see the woodcock flight charts (very little data for VA and inconsistent), but nothing really in our game books. I am guessing they are typically here around the specified season...
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I expect the VA woodcock migration to be fewer birds than we have here in WI/MI. A friend in Mass talks about their lower bag limits and smaller population. Most of this is due to a lack of early successional timber species, aspen and tag alder. We have seen some decline in woodcock populations here, with our daily limits going from 5 to 3 a few years ago, but still experience good flights.

We also have birds that reside and nest in our area. Early season bag limits of grouse and woodcock will find a woodcock here and there. When they're migrating, the flocks can be amazing.

A couple dogs ago, I left work later than I wanted to. Stopped at the house to change clothes and lick up the dog. My hunting spot was about 10 minutes away and I didn't have a lot of daylight left. I heeled my female setter back to the first patch of cover, the young Aspen patch described by Miforester, so thick you can't hardly walk through, bordering a tag alder swamp. I send the dog off to hunt and in 10 yards she's on point. I walk in and 3-4 woodcock flush. I shot one. That was the pattern into a huge migrating flock. Multiple birds flush and I shoot one, retrieve, send th edog on, repeat. 10 minutes later I've got my limit of 5 woodcock and 1 grouse. I leashed the dog and heeled her out of the woods, flushing more woodcock as we go. It took me longer to walk into our hunting spot than it did to shoot my limit. The grouse was a bonus and on that flush there were more woodcock flushing at the same time, but I focused on the grouse.
 
Ranger Rick said:
We have similar cover to that which Miforester hunts. A lot of our aspen stands have balsam fir in the understory. It helps to hunt in pairs. The grouse will run underneath a couple fir, using them for escape cover. Don on point, one guy left, one right of the fir. Usually one will get a decent shot.
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I believe I have been hunting alot of the wrong cover. After talking to many ppl on the subject, I determined I was hunting woods that were too old.

I finially had some luck and joined my local RGS chapter. I hope to be alot of help on producing good grouse habitat, while also picking some of the older guys brains. We may not have tons of birds, but I am l;ucky enough to live close enough to some major WMA's where our local RGS chapter has been doing some good things.

Hopefully a good offseason for myself and my dog along with some hard working days in the field will help produce my first ruffed this season.
 
Not primary, but I do live right in an area where there is plenty of both pheasant and ruffies. So I do both. We find them in big timber, the typical thick stuf. A challenge for sure. Great eating.:thumbsup:
 
FCSpringer said:
Not primary, but I do live right in an area where there is plenty of both pheasant and ruffies. So I do both. We find them in big timber, the typical thick stuf. A challenge for sure. Great eating.:thumbsup:
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How does your dog do distinguishing between hunting the both of them? For example, when your hunting pheasants does your dog run much bigger than when in the thick grouse woods? If so, how did you help teach him that?

My dog likes to run big. She does it whether I am in the thick grouse woods, or preserve hunting pheasants/chukar. She holds a pretty stiff point, but I don't know how she would do with a grouse in some thick woods. That is one of my main off season goals; to get her to be able to work closer when in the grouse woods, but be able to run bigger when hunting pheasants (or even retrieveing doves for me).
 
Springers. That's one of the great aspects of the breed. No need to worry about the change. You can shoot ducks at sunrise, walk some pheasant cover, then stroll on in to the thickets for a ruffie. I have a spot I have shot all 3 in one day. Never moved the truck. The thicker cover they naturally work closer. Never had to worry much about it they just adapt. Nothing against other breeds, its just one reason I love the ESS. They just do it no matter the flavor of the feather.
 
That is pretty sweet, and an awesome accomplishment. Your springers are very beautiful, and obviously talented!
 
Chewi, your dog will learn to adjust his/her range as you hunt different cover types also being steady on point helps too. Woodcock will hold for a long time and are a great training bird. As spring returns to VA check with your RGS buddies and see if any of them train on woodcock during the spring migration. I believe on the RGS website the have a site that track collard birds as they migrate north. USFS has regulated the woodcock bag limit and season to a uniform 45 days and a bag limit of three nationwide. As mentioned by Rick when you find a flight cover you can have a lot of action in a short amount of time. My best day was a 17 point day with a limit of woodcock in less than an hour with my Britt pup this past fall she after that day everything seemed to click with her. Glad to hear you joined RGS.
 
:cheers::thumbsup::10sign: Yep


Miforester said:
Chewi, your dog will learn to adjust his/her range as you hunt different cover types also being steady on point helps too. Woodcock will hold for a long time and are a great training bird. As spring returns to VA check with your RGS buddies and see if any of them train on woodcock during the spring migration. I believe on the RGS website the have a site that track collard birds as they migrate north. USFS has regulated the woodcock bag limit and season to a uniform 45 days and a bag limit of three nationwide. As mentioned by Rick when you find a flight cover you can have a lot of action in a short amount of time. My best day was a 17 point day with a limit of woodcock in less than an hour with my Britt pup this past fall she after that day everything seemed to click with her. Glad to hear you joined RGS.
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Miforester said:
Chewi, your dog will learn to adjust his/her range as you hunt different cover types also being steady on point helps too. Woodcock will hold for a long time and are a great training bird. As spring returns to VA check with your RGS buddies and see if any of them train on woodcock during the spring migration. I believe on the RGS website the have a site that track collard birds as they migrate north. USFS has regulated the woodcock bag limit and season to a uniform 45 days and a bag limit of three nationwide. As mentioned by Rick when you find a flight cover you can have a lot of action in a short amount of time. My best day was a 17 point day with a limit of woodcock in less than an hour with my Britt pup this past fall she after that day everything seemed to click with her. Glad to hear you joined RGS.
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Thanks for the information and kind words. I hope to get her on some live birds soon as I feel it is very crucial to where she is in her training.

I know very little about woodcock, but have recently started doing some research on them. This "spring migration" sounds very interesting.

This thread got me thinking when talking about using woodcock as a good training bird. At my farm, we have tons of meadow larks (or atleast that is what I have always called them). They live in the hay fields or tall pastures, and when walking through them they often flush up around us. When we were kids, my cousin used to tell me they were woodcock but I knew better.

Sounds kind of far-fetched and slightly ridiculous, but wonder if I could use the meadow larks as a training bird. Just for her to find and hold point for me to flush...
 
Sounds kind of far-fetched and slightly ridiculous said:
I would be wary of this as she may think this is what you are really after, my pup would flash point dickie birds but I just encouraged her to keep moving. I'm no scent expert and one bird may smell the same as the next but I have never rewarded any of my dogs for pointing anything other than the birds i'm looking to harvest. I have had skunks, rabbits, turkeys, deer, sick fox, mice and the fast moving turtle all pointed at one time or another and I have just acted like nothing happen except with the skunk.....my dogs learned a few new terms.... I would check with your RGS guys and see if any members near you have pigeons and if so if you could train with them. Regarding spring migration check with your local state wildlife biologist and see if they can help you with timing of the woodcock return. Here is a link to follow the migration back north, you can also following the fall migration on this site as well. www.ruffedgrousesociety.org/woodcockmigration#.VPdhX6Mo7cs
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Woodcock migrate at the same time as robins. In spring watch for flocks of robins in the yard. The woodcock are moving through at the same time. Similarly in fall, when I see flocks of robins I'm itching to get out to my favorite spots.

I hunt woodcock, grouse and pheasants. I can often tell whether he's pointing a woodcock or grouse based on his posture. It's been this way my last 3 setters. Low, crouching point is woodcock. Grouse will often be standing taller, I believe because he's getting body scent of the bird on the breeze from farther away. I've had people call BS on this, then demonstrate it in the field. Tell them as we walk in it will be a woodcock. If a grouse I don't talk, just hand signal, as grouse will flush to human voice.

I love watching him work pheasants in the tall grass, bob and weave using the wind to locate and pin running birds. My setters have almost a feline look to them when they're on the hunt like that. Poetry in motion!

Woodcock will hold so tight I've stomped around for minutes trying to flush. Grouse are spooky. Often run into cover and bust out when you least expect. Except for young birds early season. But they require a dog to lock up tight and hold, doesn't matter the distance. Creeping will bust birds and screw up your chance.
 
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