Boss shotgun ammunition

cheesy said:
Not sure I want to support a company supporting a total ban on lead. It’s just the first step.
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Uhhh.....this requires some research on my part. At first blush, that looks really concerning. SLF says their mission is to educate people, so they can make their own decision to go non-tox, thereby avoiding legislation mandating it. Ok, call me skeptical. Looks like they'll be at Pheasant Fest. Talking to SLF may be the only reason I need to attend this year. Thanks for sharing.
 
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Hopefully political talk can stay civil here.

I personally think the writing is on the wall that there will be a full ban on lead in the future. It just seems the way things are moving. But when that will come by I have no idea. I am also unsure if hunters choosing to go non-tox will make the transition quicker or slower. I can see arguments for both. If lead is having an impact on the environment, then people switching would slow that down, but if they switch, they may be more likely to vote for a ban as it doesn't impact them.

I've said it on here before, but I recently have been testing non-tox out for all my hunting. I have never waterfowl hunted so it's been a big test and honestly was harder than I expected. One thing I am optimistic on is companies bringing down the cost of bismuth and HD shots. Steel worked great for close easy birds, but it's not the best substitute for long or going away shots compared to lead. I would use bismuth all day easily if the cost was more close to premium lead. Which Boss is the closest company to providing that. I have yet to hear from their mouth that they are for full ban at the moment, although it would increase their business if a ban came down.
 
A friend who couldn’t get federal ammo for his 28 gauge, this winter for quail hunting in the south west. Purchased boss, and in cleaning birds has been finding fragments of pellets in the birds!
I have been told by an industry executive, there is quality differences in bismuth. Some mfg. buy the non fragmented raw materials. They do a different alloy. Do some research!
 
The MN Legislature has tried to push through a full lead ban on ammunition and fishing tackle for years here. It has not passed. The opposition to it is the cost, from both buyers and manufacturers. There was talk of some buy-back program for fishing tackle containing lead.

To my knowledge, the two reasons they continue to push it are: loons and eagles. Loons eat small lead weights, jigs, sinkers, etc off the bottom of the lake and then die of lead poisoning. Studies have proven this. Eagles often pick away at deer carcasses/gut piles and ingest lead fragments from the bullet used to take the deer. Studies have proven this too.

I can't comment on how loons are doing overall in population because I haven't researched that. But the eagle population has never been higher, so that part is a moot point. There's so many eagles around these days they're like crows.

The one stipulation on banning lead ammo is that they can only enforce it on public land. So that would not affect me, personally.
 
I can see manufacturers phasing out the sales of lead ammunition. I don’t think there is going to be an outright ban on private land just yet. Someday the supply is just going to disappear
 
I only shoot non-tox, except for clays. Ruffed grouse and woodcock are steel 6 shot, pheasants are bismuth 4's, waterfowl were steel or now for next year, bismuth. I don't shoot cases a year. Across all hunting I shoot about 1 case per year. At the end of the day, my shell costs are minute compared to the other costs of hunting. I do shoot lead bullets for big game, but haven't purchased ammo for my .270 in about 13 years if I had to guess. I'm not sure how I feel on a lead ban. I chose to go non-tox due to my own interpretation of the science. But to go to a full ban? I'm not sure. I certainly feel better about myself shooting non-tox ammo, but I don't judge others for shooting lead. It scientifically makes sense for areas waterfowl use. MeatEater had an excellent podcast on lead maybe 12-18 months ago, which is actually what made me really start thinking about it. If you've got some windshield time coming up I'd definitely recommend you listen to it. The name and number of the episode are below.

EP. 354: IF THERE'S LEAD IN THE AIR, THERE'S HOPE IN THE HEART​

 
BrownDogsCan2 said:
I can see manufacturers phasing out the sales of lead ammunition. I don’t think there is going to be an outright ban on private land just yet. Someday the supply is just going to disappear
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And I'd be fine with this, as long as there is a viable, reasonably-priced alternative that's widely available. Right now there isn't. Steel is crap compared to lead and bismuth is like 50 bucks/box, which is twice the cost. Tungsten jigs or weights for fishing are also very expensive compared to lead-based versions. People literally have thousands of dollars invested into their lead-based fishing tackle. Replacing it would be a monumental undertaking.

If they slowly phased it in over time, I think people would accept it.
 
I've been shooting both BOSS #5's and #4's in the magnum's out of my 12 guage in 3". I used them each for one full season and found better success with the #5's so that's what I'm going to shoot until something better comes along. They're spendy but not horrible, for the amount of money I spend on pheasants it's a drop in the bucket. Seems to hit plenty hard, had a few cripples, but also folded plenty of birds out past 40 as well.

I only shoot non-toxic, my uncle was a 40-year USFWS waterfowl biologist, the problem isn't necessarily lead in the water or even hitting the bird with lead for that matter, it's if they grab some lead and it ends up in their crop. A duck hit with lead shot won't die from lead poisoning (other than if you kill them obviously), but if they go to the bottom of a pond and grab a BB and it ends up in their crop that's where the problem lies. Everyone here has seen a public duck pond on opening day, imagine the amount of load that ends up in the water, it's a lot.

I understand the argument for people wanting to use lead on uplands, with me hunting a lot of WPA's I just shoot non-toxic all the time so I don't have to mess with it. It probably doesn't matter, but if I shoot one over water I don't want my load killing some duck a year later so I'm fine shooting the more expensive shells, but I'm not going to tell someone else they need to do the same either.
 
I have been using nontoxic shot both steel and bismuth now for several years.

It makes no sense to me to inject a known neurotoxin into the food that I eat and feed to my family when a nontoxic alternative is readily available.

That point was reinforced recently when grinding pheasant meat with bacon for a recipe that I learned about on this forum.

While I tried to judiciously remove all the shot, I still had some steel show up between the cutter and plate on my grinder. The steel shot was easily removed. I do not want to eat food that is infused with lead.
 
John Singer said:
It makes no sense to me to inject a known neurotoxin into the food that I eat and feed to my family when a nontoxic alternative is readily available.
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While I do agree with your sentiment here, lets just be honest. There's a lot worse things we consume on a daily basis than an unmeasurable amount of lead from BBs or bullet fragment. Avoiding one but consuming another is pure hypocrisy.

A guy would have to eat and drink like an Olympian for life to avoid harmful substances.
 
gimruis said:
While I do agree with your sentiment here, lets just be honest. There's a lot worse things we consume on a daily basis than an unmeasurable amount of lead from BBs or bullet fragment. Avoiding one but consuming another is pure hypocrisy.
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Knowing that lead is a neurotoxin and choosing not to use it to harvest the game that I eat and feed my family is not hypocrisy.

I have been treated for pernicious anemia and have been diagnosed will elevated blood lead levels. I have both under control now, and want to keep it that way.

Annie Oakley died from such at an age only a few years greater that my age now. I want to avoid that outcome.
 
A5 Sweet 16 said:
I've got 3 wild SD roosters aging in my garage that'll probably be cleaned tonight. After reading this, I fully expect to find their crops full of shot!! 🥴
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Funny. I've shot & cleaned what some would consider my share of wild, public land pheasants, most on land that sees a TON of shooting. Haven't checked all their crops, but quite a few. I haven't found a single pellet. Not one.
 
A5 Sweet 16 said:
Funny. I've shot & cleaned what some would consider my share of wild, public land pheasants, most on land that sees a TON of shooting. Haven't checked all their crops, but quite a few. I haven't found a single pellet. Not one.
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What is the point of your argument here?
 
John Singer said:
What is the point of your argument here?
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My comment has nothing to do with your decision to use non-tox. Simply pointing out that this SLF group, that'd been mentioned previously a couple times in this thread, would have us believe pheasants eat a significant amount of shot & that in all my years, I've found exactly none in the birds I've cleaned.
 
A5 Sweet 16 said:
My comment has nothing to do with your decision to use non-tox. Simply pointing out that this SLF group, that'd been mentioned previously a couple times in this thread, would have us believe pheasants eat a significant amount of shot & that in all my years, I've found exactly none in the birds I've cleaned.
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Thank you for the reply.

I have my doubts that spent lead shot is significant factor in most game bird mortality.

The fact you have not found any shot in the crops of the birds that you have cleaned is not surprising or even significant.

When the studies were conducted on waterfowl ingestion of lead shot in 1970s, shot was most often observed in the bird's gizzards and not their crops.
 
Lets not forget its a business decision.

As more lead shot is banned, demand goes up for non tox (obviously) and prices rise. Theres enough complaints on here about $20/box lead shot being unreasonable.. just wait until you have to buy bismuth at $70/box or steel at $30/box and rush to do so before it's sold out for the season.

In no world would the cost of non tox go down when lead is banned. Its only going to go up.

Also, what happens when all the ranges are non tox also? Is the average hunter going to go shoot trap in the offseason with $15/box steel target loads? Is that going to translate to more wounded game when people cant afford to practice?
 
John Singer said:
Thank you for the reply.

I have my doubts that spent lead shot is significant factor in most game bird mortality.

The fact you have not found any shot in the crops of the birds that you have cleaned is not surprising or even significant.

When the studies were conducted on waterfowl ingestion of lead shot in 1970s, shot was most often observed in the bird's gizzards and not their crops.
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I'd contend that spent lead shot plays a MAJOR role in SOME game bird mortality! 🤣

I'd also contend that for anything to reach a bird's gizzard, it must first pass through its crop. And the fact that many of the birds I shoot have crops CHOCK FULL of whatever they recently ingested, & that I've never found a pellet, is at least somewhat significant. Not surprising though, because I doubt most pheasants in SD ever ingest a single pellet.
 
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