I brought this up in another post and thought that it deserved it's own thread. Some of you may think it's insane, but the grace, workmanship, and grace of the pre 1900 double guns have leas me to a reintroduction to an old friend, black powder, and percussion ignition. I dabbled with this as a teenager, but went to cartridge guns when I "grew up". Now looking to add something to the experience, I have acquired a Purdey sxs, and a Manton sxs, to go along with a Pedersoli double I already owned. First impression is a comparison between the high grade Purdey and not quite so high Manton, and the Pedersoli. Weight and balance is one difference with the Pedersoli coming in at 7.5 pounds, the Purdey at 6, and the Manton at 7. Both the Purdey and Manton are fine english twist damascus barreled. Didn't pay retail for the Purdey, but still expensive, but it's obvious the superior fit and finish even after 130 years. Shooting takes some readjustment, first is learning to duck down to see if you hit anything so you can see under the cloud of sulphur smoke. I have to be much more cognizant of lead because of the lag time between trigger and ignition, though the Purdey is much better timed. So I have to alter my usual "probe and hope" method of shooting which has served me well, to more of a sustained lead and follow through method. Clays have been the only target thus far. Loading is not bad except for the damnable percussion caps and my fumbling fingers, trying to use a capper but doesn't really seem any better than the fingers so far. Need to really compact the charge, both powder and shot, with the ramrod which is a little scary with an explosive powder. Even after inspection with a bore scope, pulling the trigger on a damascus barrel for the first time, after years of safety warnings "never shoot a damascus gun", takes some guts. Wondering if any of you forum users have caught the bug, or experimented with actual hunting. My next shooting excercise is semi-wild call back quail over pointing dogs, and I am working up a no-tox load for pheasants, something like 3-3.25 drams of FFG pushing 1 1/8th ounce of #6 "nice shot", lubed vegetable fiber 1/2 inch wad, waxed and sealed 1/4 inch cardboard disc over shot, 1150 -1200 fps. At the distances I shoot it ought to work. All experiences and discourse positive or negative welcome.
Black Powder
- Thread starter oldandnew
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Phil V.
New member
I used one years ago for rabbit hunting and had fun with it. I also used a hawken 50 caliber rifle and a 45 kentucky long rifle for deer hunting. I tried different amounts of powder to get the right pattern on the shotgun and to get the right charge to shoot the distance with the for the rifle.I still have the 45. Once you get the hang of it you'll have lots of fun shooting with it.
jnormanh
New member
Some of those old Damascus barrels are pretty tough. As you probably know, the real danger with them is corrosion between the wires from which they were made, inside where you can't see it.
Back in the 1950s my father and uncle owned a hardware/sporting goods store, and they sold and traded guns. Uncle Jack was interested in the old muzzle loaders, and he kept two or thee they had taken in trade.
One slow day he decided to test fire one of them, so he loaded it up with black powder and shot. He didn't have a scale or measure, so he just dumped some in. He then squatted down and let fly at the back door - click...KABOOOOOM. He blew an 8" hole in the door, and the recoil knocked him over on his behind.
After that he used a measure to load it, but the back door shot must have been way overloaded. The Damascus barrel held up just fine.
Back in the 1950s my father and uncle owned a hardware/sporting goods store, and they sold and traded guns. Uncle Jack was interested in the old muzzle loaders, and he kept two or thee they had taken in trade.
One slow day he decided to test fire one of them, so he loaded it up with black powder and shot. He didn't have a scale or measure, so he just dumped some in. He then squatted down and let fly at the back door - click...KABOOOOOM. He blew an 8" hole in the door, and the recoil knocked him over on his behind.
After that he used a measure to load it, but the back door shot must have been way overloaded. The Damascus barrel held up just fine.
Hi, new to the forum but have some experience with muzzle loaders. First off, are you using real black powder or a synthetic? The synthetics have a higher ignition temperature which can result in the lag between the pop of the cap and the bang of the main charge. If you're using synthetic, and haven't already, try out the #11 CCI magnum caps, they burn hotter then normal caps. The fizz bang theory is Hollywood and old wives tales. Even well tuned and properly loaded flintlocks have an ignition time that's just fractions of a second. But it's still a good idea to hold that lead, you never know when a little moisture might have gotten into the powder. Plus, there is no need to really compact the charge. Push the shot pouch down until you feel it hit the powder, then just a another good push to make sure it seated. You shouldn't need to put more then a couple pounds of pressure on the rod. NEVER EVER put your hand over the end of the rod, and preferably don't wrap your thumb around the rod when loading. If you are unsure or don't feel comfortable with the way the shot seated, use a piece of wood or a rubber mallet to give the end of the rod a few taps, but again, not much pressure is needed. If you use a mallet, let the weight of the head do the work, don't put any muscle into it.
I do not own one, but I have heard a lot of testimony that Damascus barrels are perfectly safe to use as long as they are not rusted out and you use only black powder. Barrels are usually proofed with a double charge to ensure they don't blow apart. I'm not sure how much pressure difference there is between synthetic and real black powder however. Might be wise to consult with a gunsmith.
Additionally, if the patterns are not tight enough to your liking you could try "jug choking." This will require professional work on your barrels. Basically a gunsmith machines out a slight groove about 1-2" before the muzzle inside the bore, this allows the shot to expand in the barrel, then be restricted again right before leaving the muzzle. It's a permanent solution though, so take some thought if you really want to, or how much you want to, choke the pattern. I don't know if this is a safe option on Damascus barrels though.
Another side benefit to jug choking is that if you ever decide to shoot a round ball out of your barrels this choking method does not effect the ballistics of the ball. You'd essentially have a two in one gun, capable of short range deer shots or bird shots.
I have no idea if you could find this for sale, the only time I've heard of it is a guy that made his own. If the patterns are too tight you could try chopped shot. The cube shape of the shot causes it to tumble around more in the barrel and gives it some wonkey flight characteristics making the pattern much wider then round shot.
I do not own one, but I have heard a lot of testimony that Damascus barrels are perfectly safe to use as long as they are not rusted out and you use only black powder. Barrels are usually proofed with a double charge to ensure they don't blow apart. I'm not sure how much pressure difference there is between synthetic and real black powder however. Might be wise to consult with a gunsmith.
Additionally, if the patterns are not tight enough to your liking you could try "jug choking." This will require professional work on your barrels. Basically a gunsmith machines out a slight groove about 1-2" before the muzzle inside the bore, this allows the shot to expand in the barrel, then be restricted again right before leaving the muzzle. It's a permanent solution though, so take some thought if you really want to, or how much you want to, choke the pattern. I don't know if this is a safe option on Damascus barrels though.
Another side benefit to jug choking is that if you ever decide to shoot a round ball out of your barrels this choking method does not effect the ballistics of the ball. You'd essentially have a two in one gun, capable of short range deer shots or bird shots.
I have no idea if you could find this for sale, the only time I've heard of it is a guy that made his own. If the patterns are too tight you could try chopped shot. The cube shape of the shot causes it to tumble around more in the barrel and gives it some wonkey flight characteristics making the pattern much wider then round shot.
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