Big Blue Stem out competes Brome??
- Thread starter moellermd
- Start date
pheasantaddict
New member
Some counties use praire grass when they reseed ditches.
Around here in NW Missouri, If the farmers hay the ground at the right time, in the regrowth, there is a lot of big Bluestem, and gamma grass. Had a conversation with a farmer just this week, he said 2 years ago, they cut hay, and round baled it, got busy with other things, and it sat in the pasture, awhile, killed the cool season sod underneath. After they moved them, pure stands of big bluestem came up, in all the spots. It remains that way today. Seed laid dormant for he estimates 40 years! Obviously the prairie is waiting us fools of the poor land management out, I'm comforted by the knowledge.
moellermd
Super Moderator
This is not reseeding it is just moving in.
FCSpringer
Moderator
It is being put in in ditches here when they do work. Switch etc. It looks good. But I also thought brome won out. PD should know
Prairie Drifter
Well-known member
Moe, I see three possibilities. First, brome has a tendency to get root bound and die back especially when no nitrogen has been added. This could result in the big blue filling a niche that is now just available. The second option is that this could be the result of weather conditions that are more favorable for warm season plants. In this case, the brome's growing season or conditions have been less favorable and the plants are weakened and the big blue was already there but supressed and gets favorable conditions that make it a more dominant part of the picture. The third option is that what you are seeing is the result of some management practice. The ditches may have been mowed at a time that supressed the brome and made an opportunity for the warm season grass to become more dominant.
I used this very technique on Norton Wildlife Area back in the 90's to improve the pheasant hunting. The area had been planted to brome by the Bureau of Reclaimation when the reservoir was built back in the 60's. It had become root bound and the natives were there, but unable to thrive due to fluffy soil conditions and residual brome. I brought in a heavy stocking of cattle from April 1 to June 15 and grazed the brome heavy so that when it went dormant for the summer it was about 2 inches tall. The cattle never touched the warm season grass as it was just beginning to grow when the cattle were removed and the regrazed brome was the most nutritious, all while packing the soil and improving conditions for seedlings. The natives got all summer without the competition of the brome to take up the available space and the natural fertilizer left by the cattle. Plants that were the size of your little finger in year 1 were larger than a bathtub in year 3. Sites went from cover where you could see every meadowlark from the road at the start to cover producing pointed roosters in that short amount of time. Side benefit, they were paying me to graze it too! I did this on 2-3 thousand acres. Left some real nice photos of the succession. The neighbors started doing the same thing on their side of the fence.
I used this very technique on Norton Wildlife Area back in the 90's to improve the pheasant hunting. The area had been planted to brome by the Bureau of Reclaimation when the reservoir was built back in the 60's. It had become root bound and the natives were there, but unable to thrive due to fluffy soil conditions and residual brome. I brought in a heavy stocking of cattle from April 1 to June 15 and grazed the brome heavy so that when it went dormant for the summer it was about 2 inches tall. The cattle never touched the warm season grass as it was just beginning to grow when the cattle were removed and the regrazed brome was the most nutritious, all while packing the soil and improving conditions for seedlings. The natives got all summer without the competition of the brome to take up the available space and the natural fertilizer left by the cattle. Plants that were the size of your little finger in year 1 were larger than a bathtub in year 3. Sites went from cover where you could see every meadowlark from the road at the start to cover producing pointed roosters in that short amount of time. Side benefit, they were paying me to graze it too! I did this on 2-3 thousand acres. Left some real nice photos of the succession. The neighbors started doing the same thing on their side of the fence.
FCSpringer
Moderator
He does have that dirt knoledge doesn't he.
Thanks for all the help in these departments PD. I know we are hard to put up with some times.:cheers: PD what do you think of my waiting to plant my seed? There was just no brome that really came back to spray. and it did not get sprayed before they bulldozed everything. Basicly they used a d9 and pushed the black off to both sides, pushed clay in the low areas, then pushed the top soil back on top. Will those brome roots take back over in the spring? I thought more would come up and be able to round up it. But mostly just weeds.
moellermd
Super Moderator
He does have that dirt knoledge doesn't he.
Thanks for all the help in these departments PD. I know we are hard to put up with some times.:cheers:
Can we have an ask PD forum?
Hijacker
Prairie Drifter
Well-known member
FC, the wait is a good thing. Gives you the time to evaluate what's there and respond to those conditions. I am afraid that my experience largely just fits the wildlife arena. I wouldn't be much help with economic or psychological information
FCSpringer
Moderator
Sorry M, we have to take PD where we can get him
PD thanks I guess thats what I will do. I am learning to get a nice plot it definatley takes time. Darn I wish you could help with my psychological problem.:laugh:
Whatever is going on with those B stem and native grass issues in roadsides etc. it is nice to see. I think the birds like it.:thumbsup:
Interesting thread. Part of our CRP has a thick stand of slender wheatgrass. In July I did some spot mowing of thistles. By late August the mowed spots had a nice stand of bluestem. I've noticed bluesstem in road ditches, more some years than others. These are township roads, so it is not from any recent seeding or management. Suspect it is like PD says, when the brome gets suppressed by some means, the bluestem takes off. Amazing how long the seed remains viable, some of these road ditches are 80-90 years old, although I don't know for sure when they were seeded to brome.
kansasbrittany
Banned
FC, the wait is a good thing. Gives you the time to evaluate what's there and respond to those conditions. I am afraid that my experience largely just fits the wildlife arena. I wouldn't be much help with economic or psychological information
Help him get plenty of birds on his place and he might not need help in either of those areas any longer.....well, it may not help his economic situation but will surely do wonders for the psychological challenges right?
Prairie Drifter
Well-known member
Grey Fox, often the native plants are already there, just supressed. That was the case at Norton. I crawled around a lot on my hands and knees looking at individual plants to evaluate what was there and why. Found out I had a lot of natives already available. They just couldn't get first crack at the moisture, sun, fertility, etc to thrive. Introducing the animal impact to compact the soil, recycle some above ground nutrients, and supress the brome resulted in conditions that allowed the natives to grow, reproduce, and spread. A chemical application could have gotten rid of the brome, but then the natives would have had to compete with annual weeds and still wouildn't have had the soil conditions to thrive. Further, in the lack of some kind of physical impact, the existing standing matter just sat there and rarely entered the nutrient cycle where it could become part of the native grass itself. It was one of my most memorable projects, really satisfying. Probably the most beneficial part was seeing the cattlemen brave enough to get involved in my project take that knowledge home and use it to improve their grassland there. I had the same response when I started burning up there. The came running in their 1 ton trucks to see if I wanted them to call the fire department. When I told them no, they assured me that burning wouldn't work in NW Kansas. I told them that these were the same species as in the flint hills of eastern Kansas and they would benefit as long as I managed it right. Within 3 years there were smoke plumes going up in every direction during burning season. They were watching over the fence and using what they learned. Some times it's better to show folks than tell them.
FCSpringer
Moderator
Yea there is a 160 acre public right across the road that is geared up to be one of the most beautiful spots around. But they let in go in brome and thistle is bad. I wish it would start on fire. But I certainly don't want to be the one to do it. They are re working some around the bigger area every year, and I can't wait to see them do this one. The spots they have done sure look beautiful with the MN big blue and other grasses. The birds seem to have done way better in those areas as well. I will keep bugging them about it. It might happen soon, they finally put in a parking area 2 years ago, so it should be on the radar. It has the low land brush,vast cane grass stretches with plenty of cattails and stuff, & Water. It just needs some guys like PD to come in and beautify it. I too see along the road right next to it that was mowed, Big blue came up. Eventually I think we will see most brome disappear except pasture lands.
They are re working some around the bigger area every year, and I can't wait to see them do this one. The spots they have done sure look beautiful with the MN big blue and other grasses. The birds seem to have done way better in those areas as well. I will keep bugging them about it. It might happen soon, they finally put in a parking area 2 years ago, so it should be on the radar. It has the low land brush,vast cane grass stretches with plenty of cattails and stuff, & Water. It just needs some guys like PD to come in and beautify it. I too see along the road right next to it that was mowed, Big blue came up. Eventually I think we will see most brome disappear except pasture lands.
1pheas4
Moderator
I was just in an area in Wis. grouse hunting were I saw the same thing with the little blue,big blue stem, and indian grass coming in strong in many areas I had not seen it in before.
It seemed that the warm season grasses were coming up were the cool season grasses were patchy or had some thinner spots. I contributed this to the very hot summer conditions we had this past summer. The seeds were already in the ground (for God only knows how long). They were just finally given the right conditions for growing.:thumbsup: -1pheas4
It seemed that the warm season grasses were coming up were the cool season grasses were patchy or had some thinner spots. I contributed this to the very hot summer conditions we had this past summer. The seeds were already in the ground (for God only knows how long). They were just finally given the right conditions for growing.:thumbsup: -1pheas4