Another Darn "Foreigner" asking for advice...

That a$$hole landowner has to pay taxes on 16 acres for every section. That a$$hole landowner has to spend time and money maintaining the right of way. This includes trimming trees and spraying for canadian thistles. Milestone herbicide costs $900/2.5 gallons.
For all the time and effort I put into creating habitat I feel disrespected.

Ya and you don't get rich off CRP either. :rolleyes:
 
Want to say thanks to everyone for the advice... just got back and it was a great trip... Picked up my new lab first day and hunted for the next 4... The thoughts on both where in the state to look as well as guidance on the "ditch" hunting really did help.

Should have had at least 10... ended with 4 in the worst shooting streak of my life... That said, I did succeed in getting 2 from 1 field with just my new pup, and she pulled off her first wild bird retrieve. I was quite proud.

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congrats on a great hunt. Sounds like your pup did well for. Four birds and a lifetime of memories. :thumbsup:
 
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Very nice! Glad to hear/see you had a good time regardless of a "missing streak". On top of that, your new pooch made her first retrieve:thumbsup:. That's always a good feeling.;)
 
Up-armored birds this year

Concerning misses and lost birds-I noticed an almost full set of pin and down feathers on most the birds we got. There was an extended cold snap in late August and the local wisdom was that this triggered healthy/mature birds to fill out their feathers early. We were shooting 1.5oz hot load 2.5in #5 lead and getting some close flushes at 20-30 yards and I often had to unload all 5 shells to bring them down with feathers falling each time. It was an IC choke but I was on them the whole way many times. If they were going straight away, they might crumple and drop their wings but they would be on their feet and running before either I or the dog could get 40-50 yards on a flat out sprint to where they dropped. We pursued a number of them 100+ yards through CRP and could see them up ahead as they kept on running. I had much better luck if they caught the wind and I could get ahead of them and get headshot.

There were a number of birds at cleaning that just rained down BBs as we pulled the skin off with barely a hole in the body meat. In years past we switched to #2 lead for the first one or two shells in the auto and then #4s after that so that we filled the pattern a ways out. I would recommend keeping at least a box of each handy in case you run into the same situation. Maybe give yourself a day or two to get back up to speed on live wild birds but then if they continue to laugh off your best shot, you might want to compromise on number of pellets and go for more impact with #4s and maybe even #2s. The latter can be hard to find in the local stores if you don't already have them in the shell box so plan ahead.
 
Concerning misses and lost birds-I noticed an almost full set of pin and down feathers on most the birds we got. There was an extended cold snap in late August and the local wisdom was that this triggered healthy/mature birds to fill out their feathers early. We were shooting 1.5oz hot load 2.5in #5 lead and getting some close flushes at 20-30 yards and I often had to unload all 5 shells to bring them down with feathers falling each time. It was an IC choke but I was on them the whole way many times. If they were going straight away, they might crumple and drop their wings but they would be on their feet and running before either I or the dog could get 40-50 yards on a flat out sprint to where they dropped. We pursued a number of them 100+ yards through CRP and could see them up ahead as they kept on running. I had much better luck if they caught the wind and I could get ahead of them and get headshot.

There were a number of birds at cleaning that just rained down BBs as we pulled the skin off with barely a hole in the body meat. In years past we switched to #2 lead for the first one or two shells in the auto and then #4s after that so that we filled the pattern a ways out. I would recommend keeping at least a box of each handy in case you run into the same situation. Maybe give yourself a day or two to get back up to speed on live wild birds but then if they continue to laugh off your best shot, you might want to compromise on number of pellets and go for more impact with #4s and maybe even #2s. The latter can be hard to find in the local stores if you don't already have them in the shell box so plan ahead.

hogwash. period. none of the above makes any sense to me and it certainly is not necessary to use large shot to kill pheasants or high speed either even though it may help sometimes in some guns. you have a shooting problem and that's it. so far this year on both ducks and phesasnts, I have been using #6 steel or itx shot in my 14 ga. and I just went 25 for 25 using a 28 ga. or the 14 ga. and not a lost bird. that's lots better than normal but refutes the problem that you are trying to describe. you don't even need that size shot for turkey, anyway

cheers
 
I've been using #2 steel and have lost just two out of the 20 I have brought down so far this year. Both due to heavy cover. Haven't missed but two. And that wasn't because of the size of shot. How do you get five shots off at a single bird anyways? Probably shooting too fast would be the issue in my assumption.
 
Concerning misses and lost birds-I noticed an almost full set of pin and down feathers on most the birds we got. There was an extended cold snap in late August and the local wisdom was that this triggered healthy/mature birds to fill out their feathers early. We were shooting 1.5oz hot load 2.5in #5 lead and getting some close flushes at 20-30 yards and I often had to unload all 5 shells to bring them down with feathers falling each time. It was an IC choke but I was on them the whole way many times. If they were going straight away, they might crumple and drop their wings but they would be on their feet and running before either I or the dog could get 40-50 yards on a flat out sprint to where they dropped. We pursued a number of them 100+ yards through CRP and could see them up ahead as they kept on running. I had much better luck if they caught the wind and I could get ahead of them and get headshot.

There were a number of birds at cleaning that just rained down BBs as we pulled the skin off with barely a hole in the body meat. In years past we switched to #2 lead for the first one or two shells in the auto and then #4s after that so that we filled the pattern a ways out. I would recommend keeping at least a box of each handy in case you run into the same situation. Maybe give yourself a day or two to get back up to speed on live wild birds but then if they continue to laugh off your best shot, you might want to compromise on number of pellets and go for more impact with #4s and maybe even #2s. The latter can be hard to find in the local stores if you don't already have them in the shell box so plan ahead.

I have to agree with mustistuff. There is a lot in your post that doesn't make any sense at all. First, how do you load 1.5 oz. of shot in a 2.5 in. shell? If you are not getting penetration with #5 shot at 20-30 yards it's not that the birds have heavy feathers. At that range any load, even trap loads, should have adequate penetration. I shoot #6 or #5 shot all season in my 16 gauge with either IC or Mod choke and have no problem killing pheasants at 30-40 yards and sometimes more. One thing for sure, you do not need #2 lead shot for pheasants. Maybe in steel, but not lead. If you are reloading it's got to me your shells. If not, then it's your shooting. There a many roosters that fall to a 20 ga. with 1 oz. of #6 shot at 1,200 fps.
 
It's not hogwash. We as responsible and ethical hunters have a duty and responsibility to ensure quick clean kills. Proper equipment and ammunition is critical. Yes being a great shot is important but you can hit a bird and not kill it. I made a mistake during my trip to SD with accidentally buying the wrong choice in ammo and I lost birds as a result. Once I got home and bought the right stuff, my issues with lost birds immediately went away Same gun same chokes but I am 100% on putting every bird that I shot at in the bag since I got back. I'm not suddenly a better shot, rather I have the right equipment to get the job done.

Let me end this post by being clear that I'm not knocking someone who chooses to use a lighter gauge gun or different loads.
 
519xx, what you are saying is absolutely correct. But go back and read the original poster's comments. So much of it doesn't make sense. I think that's what musti was saying hogwash to. Not that you shouldn't use the correct gun, shells, chokes, etc. to get the job done. They all can make a difference. But it's still the shooter that has to put the pattern on the bird. Without that there is no gun or shell that can help.
 
I have to agree with mustistuff. There is a lot in your post that doesn't make any sense at all. First, how do you load 1.5 oz. of shot in a 2.5 in. shell? If you are not getting penetration with #5 shot at 20-30 yards it's not that the birds have heavy feathers. At that range any load, even trap loads, should have adequate penetration. I shoot #6 or #5 shot all season in my 16 gauge with either IC or Mod choke and have no problem killing pheasants at 30-40 yards and sometimes more. One thing for sure, you do not need #2 lead shot for pheasants. Maybe in steel, but not lead. If you are reloading it's got to me your shells. If not, then it's your shooting. There a many roosters that fall to a 20 ga. with 1 oz. of #6 shot at 1,200 fps.

maybe a 3.5" shell...but then how did he fit 5 in the gun? Maybe a superblack eagle rigged for snow geese. I don't know...hmmm?
 
shooting

pheasants don't care what ya shoot at them, some things are better than other's however. remember, we are all playing here with a half deck of cards, keep a thick skin and you will find these comments all have some useful info in them and you are not getting picked on, have fun. I happen to be a very strong fan of density rather than relying on high energy from fewer pellets and maybe a lucky hit with one of them, there are however theories out there that are different but you don't have to load your shells with musket balls to bring down a pheasant

cheers
 
maybe a 3.5" shell...but then how did he fit 5 in the gun? Maybe a superblack eagle rigged for snow geese. I don't know...hmmm?

He did say "we" in that post, so maybe one hunter had an over and under, the other was shooting a pump or auto??? Hence 5 shots between two hunters:confused::confused:

Maybe he can clear up the confusion.
 
If I am shooting 5 shells at a rooster it isn't a shell problem:p. As 519 stated we should use ammo based on the situation.
 
Sorry, work has been kicking my ass ever since I got back so I didn't check in lately (you know how you pay a big price just to arrange the time off and the logistics and then there's everything that piles up that is waiting when you get back). Sorry to confuse but I did mean standard 2 3/4 shells in my original post. Still, the hot loads are a challenging load to produce but fun to shoot.

There's a reloading recipe with Hodgson Long Shot powder (compact, but packs a punch), good quality Winchester AA hulls and compressed wads that can get you to 1.5oz with just a moderate amount of bulge in the crimp. The breech and muzzle pressure stays reasonable for any gun made in the past 30years but still comes out at about 1350 fps. Patterned really well in my Rem 12ga 1187 SuperMag and fits 5 shells of this size in a standard mag.

I am hunting with a young flushing dog in ditches and public spots with smart, wild birds. They were getting up at 30-40 yards to start for an average shot and in windy conditions they were moving fast in the air. You don't need loads this hot to take birds but in these conditions, but I get much cleaner kills in this situation when I can reach out and swat them down. As long as I can get reliably get birds at this distance, I will take the long shots. Rather than continue to lose birds, I will change shot size because the laws of physics says they will hit harder under similar conditions.

With little wind and dumber birds on opening Saturday, I took 5 birds with 7 shells. I shot an U/O for my first 20 years in SD so I learned to make good first and second shots. With my dad slowing down I now have to get on a second or third bird in a flush, thus the upgrade to an auto.

It's not unusual in SD to pickup a variety of roosters. I've regularly handled just-colored birds, pen raised, this years full grown and a 2 or 3 year old birds and got them 50-75 miles a part in a season. There is a difference between how easily they drop and what their feather thickness you can feel when you handle them. Could be local flock genetics, feed available and I think weather conditions in my experience.
 
Sorry, work has been kicking my ass ever since I got back so I didn't check in lately (you know how you pay a big price just to arrange the time off and the logistics and then there's everything that piles up that is waiting when you get back). Sorry to confuse but I did mean standard 2 3/4 shells in my original post. Still, the hot loads are a challenging load to produce but fun to shoot.

There's a reloading recipe with Hodgson Long Shot powder (compact, but packs a punch), good quality Winchester AA hulls and compressed wads that can get you to 1.5oz with just a moderate amount of bulge in the crimp. The breech and muzzle pressure stays reasonable for any gun made in the past 30years but still comes out at about 1350 fps. Patterned really well in my Rem 12ga 1187 SuperMag and fits 5 shells of this size in a standard mag.

I am hunting with a young flushing dog in ditches and public spots with smart, wild birds. They were getting up at 30-40 yards to start for an average shot and in windy conditions they were moving fast in the air. You don't need loads this hot to take birds but in these conditions, but I get much cleaner kills in this situation when I can reach out and swat them down. As long as I can get reliably get birds at this distance, I will take the long shots. Rather than continue to lose birds, I will change shot size because the laws of physics says they will hit harder under similar conditions.

With little wind and dumber birds on opening Saturday, I took 5 birds with 7 shells. I shot an U/O for my first 20 years in SD so I learned to make good first and second shots. With my dad slowing down I now have to get on a second or third bird in a flush, thus the upgrade to an auto.

It's not unusual in SD to pickup a variety of roosters. I've regularly handled just-colored birds, pen raised, this years full grown and a 2 or 3 year old birds and got them 50-75 miles a part in a season. There is a difference between how easily they drop and what their feather thickness you can feel when you handle them. Could be local flock genetics, feed available and I think weather conditions in my experience.

Probably should not put on a public post you shot more than three roosters in one day.
 
I was hunting with another local. SD GF&P 2014 regs, pg 43:

Party Hunting Daily Limits
"Two or more legally licensed hunters who mutually
agree to hunt small game as a party and who maintain
visual and unaided vocal contact may take more than
one daily limit of small game. However, the total number
of small game taken by the party may not exceed the
aggregate daily limit for all members of the party who
are licensed to take and possess small game."

Now, there wasn't many moments of silence where he wasn't in my face and telling me everything I was doing it wrong all day long; that my shotgun sucked, that my shells were wrong, that I should have had that bird, that I should be 6 for 6 shooting, that I had the wrong kind of lab, and on and on. I would say that counts for "maintaining visual and unaided vocal contact".

That's they way its always been and I wouldn't have it any other way. They won't give the time of day to any schmuck to dumb to listen but when you're accepted in the circle you're expected to give it and take it without whining about it. Kind of the opposite of common forum behavior.
 
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