About time for a new lab

[westksbowhunter]

I know this is over a year old, but I saw comments about Double TT and needed to chime in. I believe Double TT used to be an amazing gundog operation. Then it was sold by Haynes Floyd to Cory Dudican, and I can no longer say the same. I have read elsewhere about the negative changes, but news seems to be slow spreading. I bought a 5 month old "started" lab from Cory at Double TT earlier this year. She came and had NOTHING. Now I understand at 5 months you can't expect much, but she was not potty trained at all (Cory said she was completely potty trained), she didn't know really a single command, and she was not crate trained (Cory said she was). Some of these things we can expect to be regressions from being in a new place. However, she did not even remotely respond to the name that Cory said he gave her. All pretty concerning, but we started from scratch and she's great obedience-wise.

She's now 15 months old and has some seriously concerning behaviors. She is aggressive towards men at night sometimes. She lunged at my dad once completely randomly at night. I immediately reached out to Cory, and he did not give me a second of his day beyond a short, very indifferent text. If I sold a very expensive dog that was showing aggression issues, I would be showing at least minimal care. I get it, he's busy, but this was insane. I believe she's had almost no socialization before coming to me. This could be part of the issue. Cory also told me she was his daughter's dog and she would be upset he was selling her. His daughter is 3, and from the day I got her she is TERRIFIED of children. So either he lied and she's had no socialization to children, or his daughter was a terror to her.

The breeder she came from is excellent. She was not bred by Double TT, she was sold to them to be a new breeding female. I would totally recommend my dog's original breeder because he's been a great resource and has provided support since day one even though I did not buy my dog through him. He has said he would not sell to Double TT again. I'm posting this mostly as a warning for others looking, and I hope it shows up on Google for someone thinking of buying a dog from Cory at Double TT. Save yourself the trouble and go to SOK or Wildrose. My breeder is smaller and I don't want to directly name him, but would provide the name for anyone interested.

It's a puppy mill and was when Haynes had it as well. I went and looked at the kennel at Haynes place about 4 years ago. Was not impressed at all. Kennels were not clean and were outdated. He had 4 litters on the ground at that time. All the pups looked thin and under fed. Anytime you have that many litters on the ground, it's a puppy mill. The dogs had strong pedigree's, but they were not titles that Haynes put on them at all. He was a business man and not a dog trainer. Blaine Winan's was an assistant trainer for them for a year or so. He went out on his own and has Winans Retrievers in Dodge City. He is a great trainer and has a great facility and training grounds. My dog was bred at River View Farms in Tennessee but was trained by Blaine. You can't go wrong with him. I would run the opposite way of Double T before and after Haynes.

 

[birddogtrainer]

It's a puppy mill and was when Haynes had it as well. I went and looked at the kennel at Haynes place about 4 years ago. Was not impressed at all. Kennels were not clean and were outdated. He had 4 litters on the ground at that time. All the pups looked thin and under fed. Anytime you have that many litters on the ground, it's a puppy mill. The dogs had strong pedigree's, but they were not titles that Haynes put on them at all. He was a business man and not a dog trainer. Blaine Winan's was an assistant trainer for them for a year or so. He went out on his own and has Winans Retrievers in Dodge City. He is a great trainer and has a great facility and training grounds. My dog was bred at River View Farms in Tennessee but was trained by Blaine. You can't go wrong with him. I would run the opposite way of Double T before and after Haynes.

Great to know. I've heard and read so many things about Haynes Floyd so that's really interesting. I just heard of River View for the first time recently and they look incredible. Winan's also looks great. I wish I could do it over again with all I know now, but my lab is only 15 months and we have a long road ahead of us. Thankfully, she is from great breeding so I am hopeful she will come around.

 

[westksbowhunter]

Great to know. I've heard and read so many things about Haynes Floyd so that's really interesting. I just heard of River View for the first time recently and they look incredible. Winan's also looks great. I wish I could do it over again with all I know now, but my lab is only 15 months and we have a long road ahead of us. Thankfully, she is from great breeding so I am hopeful she will come around.

I had the absolute best hunting dog, a black male. He was sired by a MH out of GMPR Riks Risky Raider MH ( Raider won the US Open Pheasant Championship). His dam was a title female out of 3x GRHRCH UH Dakota's Cajun Roux MH. He was a big boy, 90 lbs with ribs showing and could out hunt any dog alive. I would hunt him sun up to sun down 3 to 4 days straight and the dog would just keep going. He would point if the rooster would hold and flush them when they didn't. He could track a cripple for 800 yds. I very seldom lost any cripples with him. He picked up thousands of doves and would break ice and hunt the deep water in the strip pits when the temps dipped below zero. And was an outstanding family companion. He was just short of his 12th birthday when we put him down. He was 11 and still hunted all day long and out hunted my 4 year old female. All Haynes could do is insult his size and claim a dog that big could not hunt. Haynes was about selling his brand and could not train anything.

 

[birddogtrainer]

I had the absolute best hunting dog, a black male. He was sired by a MH out of GMPR Riks Risky Raider MH ( Raider won the US Open Pheasant Championship). His dam was a title female out of 3x GRHRCH UH Dakota's Cajun Roux MH. He was a big boy, 90 lbs with ribs showing and could out hunt any dog alive. I would hunt him sun up to sun down 3 to 4 days straight and the dog would just keep going. He would point if the rooster would hold and flush them when they didn't. He could track a cripple for 800 yds. I very seldom lost any cripples with him. He picked up thousands of doves and would break ice and hunt the deep water in the strip pits when the temps dipped below zero. And was an outstanding family companion. He was just short of his 12th birthday when we put him down. He was 11 and still hunted all day long and out hunted my 4 year old female. All Haynes could do is insult his size and claim a dog that big could not hunt. Haynes was about selling his brand and could not train anything.

Wow, beautiful dog. No idea why Haynes would think his size would make him a poor hunting dog. I thought Haynes had it right and Cory turned things around in a bad way, but sounds like it was always that way. Too bad that isn't more common knowledge.

 

[westksbowhunter]

Wow, beautiful dog. No idea why Haynes would think his size would make him a poor hunting dog. I thought Haynes had it right and Cory turned things around in a bad way, but sounds like it was always that way. Too bad that isn't more common knowledge.

Oh I think they produced some good dogs, you would have to breeding those imported dogs. But that's what they were, imports that they bought, not bred or trained. The british dogs are smaller and that is what he was marketing. And that was right before he sold it.

 

[birddogtrainer]

Oh I think they produced some good dogs, you would have to breeding those imported dogs. But that's what they were, imports that they bought, not bred or trained. The british dogs are smaller and that is what he was marketing. And that was right before he sold it.

That makes sense. My lab was supposed to be a new breeding female for Double TT and comes from great lines. I can see how they did not even attempt to train though.

 

[Chestle]

My son has two Double TT bitches that he got from Haynes. One 8 years ago, the other 6 years ago. Back then Haynes did have good, imported titled studs and dams. The two my son has are good dogs.

Things did change though as Haynes got older. Prior to getting my Riverview Farm pup, I had called and emailed DoubleTT last January. I never got a response. I feel lucky about that now.

I am very happy with my Riverview girl.

BTW, I also hold a delivery position at Wildrose. This because I didn't know if Riverview had accepted me as a potential owner. If anyone wants a Wildrose dog, I can probably gift you an immediate delivery position. Been holding it since January!

 

[Citori16]

My son has two Double TT bitches that he got from Haynes. One 8 years ago, the other 6 years ago. Back then Haynes did have good, imported titled studs and dams. The two my son has are good dogs.

Things did change though as Haynes got older. Prior to getting my Riverview Farm pup, I had called and emailed DoubleTT last January. I never got a response. I feel lucky about that now.

I am very happy with my Riverview girl.

BTW, I also hold a delivery position at Wildrose. This because I didn't know if Riverview had accepted me as a potential owner. If anyone wants a Wildrose dog, I can probably gift you an immediate delivery position. Been holding it since January!

So how did this post go from recommending a puppy source to trashing breeders? Comments like these should be handled by PM’s. In my view these are as bad as politics in this forum. Are there no rules that prohibit this as there are for politics?

 

[Tukudu]

I agree with you Citori. This is not the place to bash others. Do it privately, not all have your experiences.

 

[Tukudu]

Not all have the experiences listed above, sorry for possible miscommunication.

 

[westksbowhunter]

So how did this post go from recommending a puppy source to trashing breeders? Comments like these should be handled by PM’s. In my view these are as bad as politics in this forum. Are there no rules that prohibit this as there are for politics?

If we handle this by PMs how will others learn anything? It is up to Double T to make sure their reviews are positive. Just like any business be it a restaurant, car dealership, HVAC, or dog kennel. They are out there to sell dogs to the public. If Birdog Trainers experience about a started dog helps someone from making a mistake, great. We are not talking about $1000 for a dog. We are talking about spending over $5000 for a dog. Double TT sold some great puppies over the year, but also have some negative feedback. You can still get a great hunting dog from them, no doubt about it. Those british lines are fantastic.

 

[birddogtrainer]

If we handle this by PMs how will others learn anything? It is up to Double T to make sure their reviews are positive. Just like any business be it a restaurant, car dealership, HVAC, or dog kennel. They are out there to sell dogs to the public. I also sent an email and left a voice message to Double TT last spring and didn't receive a response. If Birdog Trainers experience about a started dog helps someone from making a mistake, great. We are not talking about $1000 for a dog. We are talking about spending over $5000 for a dog. Double TT sold some great puppies over the year, but also have some negative feedback.

Exactly, thank you. My post was public for this very reason. @Citori16 and @Tukudu I want to share my experience with others looking for their new hunting retrievers so they know what they are getting into. When I was looking at Double TT i read all of these forums, and I WISH there were comments like these. This is how people are aware of where to go and where not to go. People can dispute my experience, maybe others have had great experiences with Cory, but I am sharing what I've been through.

This isn't even trashing breeders, it's sharing a very personal experience.

 

[Citori16]

Exactly, thank you. My post was public for this very reason. @Citori16 and @Tukudu I want to share my experience with others looking for their new hunting retrievers so they know what they are getting into. When I was looking at Double TT i read all of these forums, and I WISH there were comments like these. This is how people are aware of where to go and where not to go. People can dispute my experience, maybe others have had great experiences with Cory, but I am sharing what I've been through.

This isn't even trashing breeders, it's sharing a very personal experience.

So why not allow political rants? All your arguments can be applied to both

 

[birddogtrainer]

This is literally a pheasant hunting forum, and hunting retrievers are very related to the focus of this forum. Politics have nothing to do with this. This thread was about the breeder in question, which is why it’s posted here.

If you can’t see how gundog retrievers, who retrieve pheasants, and politics are different in terms of this forum then I don’t know what to say.

 

[westksbowhunter]

So why not allow political rants? All your arguments can be applied to both

No one's arguing.

 

[Chestle]

So we shouldn’t allow negative reviews of shotguns, electronic dog collars, pheasant guides, pheasant hunters operations, hunting trucks, restaurants, hunting clothes or hunting dog breeders.

Let the buyer beware on all of those.

Gotcha.

 

[westksbowhunter]

I agree with you Citori. This is not the place to bash others. Do it privately, not all have your experiences.

Isn't that what reviews are? A mixture of positive and negative experience. Isn't that why people visit the site? To seek, gather, and share experiences and ideas.

 

[Tukudu]

Ok. Had a great experience with Double TT kennels. Told Cory what I wanted in a pup (3years ago) For upland hunting and he delivered. Good hunter, good companion and great family dog. I wish you luck in your journey.

 

[westksbowhunter]

Ok. Had a great experience with Double TT kennels. Told Cory what I wanted in a pup (3years ago) For upland hunting and he delivered. Good hunter, good companion and great family dog. I wish you luck in your journey.

See there! That's what makes for a great site, people sharing experiences. It isn't always what we like or what we personally experienced but it provides others with information.

 

[AKSkeeter]

I've owned labs since the 1980s.
Sometimes it has taken several years for me to get a pup.
I always get a female in the spring (living in Alaska that is an ideal time for me).

2 labs ago I found a breeding, put down a deposit, 2nd on the list for a female, only 1 female in the litter
Next year, 2 breedings with the same breeder, number 1 on the list for a female, each litter was all males!
Third year, finally got a female in the spring 360 miles down the road.

Last lab six years ago, number 2 on the list with deposit.
Only 2 pups in the litter, luckily both were females.

My current lab is 6 years old, so have a deposit down for a mid-March litter and fingers crossed.
Number 2 on the list.