A few observations on Chicken habitat

[duckn66]

This early season chicken hunting is beginning to really capture my interest. I guess it may be the challenge that it offers and also the fact that I love grass lands. One day last week I was reading online a very old article from the Salina newspaper, may have been written in the late 1800's. It was about a couple of guys hunting chickens in August with their pointing dogs and how they ended the day with 64 birds in the bag. 64! Can you imagine?

On the way home I was noticing along I70 how much grassland now has scrub bush and trees on it. Areas that once was prime chicken habitat is now brush.

I had read somewhere that a chicken won't nest within a 1/4 mile of a verticle structure. I saw the windmill farms out there and wondered how many chickens they affected during the nesting season. I would like to see a graph of chicken populations and how they have declined over the past 100 years.

It's sad that everyone thinks the trees are so good when in reality the prairie doesn't gain anything from trees.

On another note did you read about the professor at KSU saying the time to burn the prairies is in the fall? Can you imagine what a fall burn would do to wildlife on the prairie?

 

[Radar]

My grandfather used to live on the old 2 lane highway 169 and said there used to be so many chicken hunters headed south out of the kansas city/ olathe area on the highway that they almost couldnt pull out on the road down here. I dont really know of that many hunters this far east at all anymore. Not many that I know of anymore hunt much east of the flinthills and bigger prairie areas west of here. I have a family with land down by centerville and can hunt it but dont cant expect any chicken or pheasant sightings. These areas just arent prairie anymore and what grass is there isnt the same.

 

[carptom1]

My grandfather used to live on the old 2 lane highway 169 and said there used to be so many chicken hunters headed south out of the kansas city/ olathe area on the highway that they almost couldnt pull out on the road down here. I dont really know of that many hunters this far east at all anymore. Not many that I know of anymore hunt much east of the flinthills and bigger prairie areas west of here. I have a family with land down by centerville and can hunt it but dont cant expect any chicken or pheasant sightings. These areas just arent prairie anymore and what grass is there isnt the same.

When I was a kid growing up in the early 70's, it was the thing to do in SE kansas. We would load up and hunt the morning flight, than fish all day hunt in the evening and go home. I remember many hunts where there were hunters every couple hundred yards along a roosting or feed field pass shooting them as they flew over on opening day. Not anymore down there.

 

[duckn66]

Carp where in SE ks would you be talking about?

Did anyone ever go to cassoday and do the annual opening day deal where they had breakfast for the hunters? I went a couple of times as a kid. I think now it's mostly an invite deal only on maybe one ranch.

 

[jarbo03]

I know a few guys who used to hunt chickens where the New Century Airport is in Gardner, they say it was infested with chickens. I have seen chickens disappear from areas I hunted 8-10 years ago with good success, to the east of typical chicken grounds.

 

[carptom1]

Carp where in SE ks would you be talking about?

Did anyone ever go to cassoday and do the annual opening day deal where they had breakfast for the hunters? I went a couple of times as a kid. I think now it's mostly an invite deal only on maybe one ranch.

That would be down around the town of Westphalia. That is southwest of Garnett. My uncle's wife was from down there somewhere. It was a big deal to me as a kid. Was like a pre-pheasant warm up.

 

[turtle]

North of Colony there was a dirt road a mile long. People would start camping out on Thursday night. Phesnt killer farms it now. There would be trucks lined up bumper to bumper on both sides of the road, single lane down the middle. Chickens flew the gauntlet.

 

[duckn66]

The last Chicken I killed that was anywhere near my house is in the KDWP regional office here in Topeka. It's a nice male simulating strutting. I loaned it to them since they didn't have a chicken on display. Figured it would be better to share it with those who may never shoot a chicken or perhaps have never even see one up close.

I killed it not 3 miles from my home. I had a duck blind on a private pond and they would fly over in fairly large flocks to the bean field behind me. I rarely shot any as even then they were hurting on numbers.

I'm afraid that the the Prairie Chicken will someday be unhuntable due to declining numbers and habitat.

 

[KsHusker]

I'm afraid that the the Prairie Chicken will someday be unhuntable due to declining numbers and habitat.

Sadly I agree with your statement. I think now hunting has nothing to do with their #'s -- it's all about the habitat.

Troy has all of the scientific words to describe the changes, but where you can find pockets of their suitable habitat they do just fine, just unfortunately these areas are shrinking every year.

 

[Prairie Drifter]

Prairie is just that, Prairie. It had limited woody components in a lot of the state because the incidence of fire was so frequent. Our European roots tend to make us select for woody plants and our Smokey the Bear push early last century made many of us think that fire is a bad thing. Fire is nature's maintenance crew in many habitats including prairie and many shrub or forest ecosystems. If you've been to Colorado lately, you have seen what the pine beetle has done to the forests there. The reason it's effects are so bad and widespread is because we "protected" the forests there from fire so well that they were largely a single aged stand of a single species. The beetle affects a certain age of that species and, when they got a foothold, they doomed those trees everywhere they were in that age group. The same thing in a different way is happening to our prairies. No only have we interfered with the natural fire rotation, but we have also introduced new woody species (locust, hedge, elm, cedar...) where they didn't formerly exist then protected them from fire and allowed them to spread out of the hedges, farmsteads, and windbreaks where they were put. Further, our primary ag college found 1 method to increase beef production in the Flint Hills and promoted it to the point it is almost the ONLY management method being used in that part of Kansas' prairies. The down side of that is that the ranchers burn ALL of the prairie in this "Early Intensive Stocking" management system and that has crippling effects on ground nesting bird populations as there is no nesting cover left for miles and miles. By just changing some of that management to a different system where nesting habitat is available to prairie chickens, it is plausible we could see an immediate response in the population that could equate to a several hundred percent increase. Further, another significant problem is that vertical structure we talked about. It is a man-made problem and has a man-made fix. It just takes wanting to. Keeping wind farms and utility developments out of prime prairie chicken habitat is a simple thing. They can be put in cropland or other areas that are not nesting habitat.

Breather, about the fall burning, the cure has to fit the illness. I don't believe that the discussion is to shift a 100% spring burn to a 100% fall burn. No, they are advocating that the benefits of a summer or fall burn in those habitats that have already slid quite a ways into the woody realm, would more quickly accomplish the goals of returning that habitat to a useable nesting habitat. Damaging the brush at a time when it cannot recover before fall dormancy, magnifies the effect on that plant. Further, much of our prairie ecosystems are also out of balance in that grass has been given the competitive edge for decades and the summer or fall burn would flip that by giving the forbs the advantage for that year of the burn. The grass would catch up and recover to dominate again, leading to another burn. As I've said before, nothing stays the same for long in nature. Management is a constant. The goals are variable. No one expects ranchers to manage largely for game. However, life is about balance, and right now we are far out of balance.

 

[duckn66]

Love reading your posts on stuff like this Troy. So the fall burn may not be such a bad idea if done correctly. May restore more grassland fairly quickly then? Or did I not catch what you said?

 

[Prairie Drifter]

You are right on. If folks had maintained their grasslands all along in the best way, the management needs now would remain more minimal. Once things get out of balance, the repair strategy is going to be more severe, and costly!

One thing I'd like to point out about the current Early Intensive Grazing management that is going on is that the soil is exposed to the impacts of rain fall and the associated erosion EVERY YEAR! Think about it. How many of you have driven through the Flint Hills and noticed how prominent the erosion gullies are? There is no thatch to buffer the impact of rain drops or to slow the flow of water off of the land. It has little time to soak into the ground. There are negatives with any management just as there are positives. If you do the same thing over a long period of time, there are things you are selecting for and things you are selecting against. Balance is nature's way. Yes, there are severe things going on in nature, but it isn't repetitious. Comes and goes.

 

[Toad]

I got a survey the other day from the KS Forest Service regarding woody biomass as a cash crop. Basically it was asking if I had any crap trees and how motivated would I be to have them removed. For instance, would I pay someone to remove them, would I allow someone to remove them for free, or expect to be paid for their removal from my land.

I honestly answered that I have a few acres of cedar trees that are not suitable for burning that I would allow someone to harvest free of charge, although I would not be willing to pay for this service.

Are there any firms in Kansas doing this right now? Last time I hauled a load of cedar trees to the dump, I was told that Frito Lay buys all the brush from the dump and uses it to cook potato chips.

Is this a growing industry in Kansas? Is anybody willing to remove cedar trees and haul them away for no charge? This seems too good to be true... :laugh: :cheers:

 

[duckn66]

Frito Lay does burn wood chips to cook their tater chips. I used to work for a guy who hauled every now and then for them. Paid good money to haul wood chips for them.

I don't know who had the tub grinder though.

I've not heard of being paid for cedar tree removal. I think most small guys who remove trees are going to have either burn them in place or haul off at their expense.

 

[1pheas4]

Love reading your posts on stuff like this Troy.

I agree. He is a true asset to the site.

Thanks Troy for taking the time you do to share with your expertise and knowledge on such subjects as habitat and game birds.

I for one have learned a lot from you. Keep up the good work!:cheers:

 

[Prairie Drifter]

Thanks Guys! I enjoy the opportunity to add to the input. I hope it is helpful and doesn't step on too many long established toes too badly. I guess some toe stepping leads to a better dance Glad to join in. If I can get folks to address the right problem on their ground and not waste their limited resources making more of what they have too much of already, I couldn't think of a better way to use what I've learned.

 

[jarbo03]

Thanks Guys! I enjoy the opportunity to add to the input. I hope it is helpful and doesn't step on too many long established toes too badly. I guess some toe stepping leads to a better dance Glad to join in. If I can get folks to address the right problem on their ground and not waste their limited resources making more of what they have too much of already, I couldn't think of a better way to use what I've learned.

:cheers::cheers: