A couple unknown disturbing Setter problems

[Dave&Midge]

I have a new ( my first)English Setter as of 3 weeks ago, She is 3 yrs old . One of the best noses I have seen in years and will stay on point for as long as it takes to get to her. Last hunt session we went to a preserve and found the 6 chuckers ( her first ) in a 40 acre field and 21 min exact and found em all and done. The owner of the preserve is even amazed at the ability to locate birds and makes some very long distance points with a little wind. So for the problems. This dog will sometimes when she first goes on point her tail will wiggle until you walk up and get within say 20-30 ft of her and then her tail goes up and stays rock hard forever till you find and flush the bird 10 min one time. Seems if she is running hard and passes the sent and is the bird fairly close or just gets a quick good sent of the bird as she is running hard by she just flips and lands in a rock hard point tail up every-time. Seems if she gets birdy and works into the bird sent that's when she goes on point with a little tail wiggle but if she gets a very strong first sent quick hard solid point every time I have shot her over 70 birds to this point in time. She never breaks points or flushes . 2nd VERY VERY mind boggling problem , Keep in mind this dog is very very timid, she was quoted to me "force broke to retrieve" When I tried her out the first time on five quail she would chase right out fetch em up and strait back to me. Next hunt with a friend and his dog , she points chases finds dead, picks up the bird and 10 ft from me she dropped every time, over 20 quail this day. 2 days latter by myself we hunted her first chuckers by ourselves she did great on fetching but had to really encourage her. But she fetched all of them to me but one and she wanted to hide and maybe even buried it.Next 2 times on quail perfect fetch every time had a huntr with me but no other dog. Yesterday 4 pheasants 4 chuckers always hard to run and find the shot bird and hunts dead well finds picks up but not even one retrieve. Half way to me she would drop or onetime try to hide sometimes even drops and roles on the bird itself, I am going crazy in my mind now. I almost think she may have been starved at one time and makes me think she is going to hide it for latter. But sometimes she just drop es it and goes on. Soemtimes she will mouth the birds a while before she picks them up , not realy chewing . One time she did chew a bird that was kinda blown apart realy bad.I know I can find and shoot many many birds with this dog for years but never seen these issues before and just don't understand , any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Dave

 

[The_Edouard]

Why is what her tail is doing when she is on point a problem? All dogs are different maybe she is using it as a cue that you have not picked up on? If she will point and hold like that I personally wouldnt care if her tail is going in circles. As far as the retrieving maybe she wasnt force fetched right, if she is timid and someone was too forceful with her that is most likely the problem. Make it fun to retrieve so that she wants to do it to make you happy instead of being afraid of punishment if she does not do it correctly. I dont want to start any debates here but I am not a big fan of force fetching unless it is done by a professional. If you are a field trialer then yeah it is necessary but if you are hunting for pleasure who cares as long as the dog finds the dead or running bird and doesnt let it get away. I have seen alot of good dogs ruined by incorrect force fetch when most of the time if you just give the dog some time they will eventually do it on their own. My dog retrieves MOST of the time but when he doesnt I am not too proud to walk over and pick up my own bird. Like I said I dont want to start a debate on force fetch its JMO.

 

[Phil V.]

Just a question or thought depending how you look at it. Could it be that some of the guys that go with you looks like the previous owner and he did something that made the dog half afraid of him.Just a thought.

 

[oldandnew]

Lots of dogs will act differently while retrieving a gut shot bird, Any bird blown up a little will bring out the chomping, rolling, and reluctance to pick up, fully deliver, or all of the above. I can't begin to tell you how many setters in particular, will partial retrieve. Had a female, dynamite bird dog, as you describe, she never lost a cripple, brought those to hand, If the bird was dead, she'd find it run it to within a few feet, lift up and fling it at me, in a hurry to get back to hunting. My guess is that attitude along with training as a young dog during which demands for retrieving were limited in expectation. If it were me, I'd simply except the flaws and enjoy the ride, as long as she doesn't develope a desire to excessively mouth all birds or heaven forbid begin eating them all. As is she seems pretty darn good as it is! As far as flagging. If she has hunted a lot of wild birds, she knows the difference between wild and released. Not unsual for a dog to show less intensity on liberated birds. Hard to blame them, I feel the same way! Other issue is the birds she's flagging may be moving, or have moved from the original location. Again this is fairly common and can be seen as a positive expressive communication. She's saying "it's here close somehwere, might be moving, I don't want to move because I might flush it, shooter be alert. later staunchness indicates she's solved the riddle. Sounds like a dog we'd all be happy to hunt with or own!

 

[Dave&Midge]

Thanks for all the replies fellows. was just courious on some things. She is my first Setter. Without a dought she is for ME just a darn great dog and I know for sure she is a great bird finder and points great and we should have fun for years to come. Just wondering about things. Also for me when I am not sure I would like to understand whats going on . Thanks fellows, Dave

 

[ranchodeluxe]

Sometimes it can help to let her know that you aren't taking the bird for any punitive reason. If I have a spaniel partial retrieving, I try to coax him to bring the bird by walking the other way while calling softly,not pleading. Sometimes crouching down while not making eye contact etc. When you get her to retrieve,ask her to give the bird up. Then praise her mightily and give it right back to her. I sometimes will let a dog carry his bird back to the truck. not a field trial winning maneuver, but as stated above, if your dog is just a gun dog,who cares.

 

[Dog Gun Time]

I don't know that it's possible to truly understand how a dog's mind works and why they do some of the things they do. I guess that is part of the attraction. It is not uncommon for bird dogs to be less intense on non-wild birds or to roll on or try to bury a hard hit bird. It's a little different from what they are used to and their response may vary because of that. Sounds like a great dog!!! I love your description of "running hard by she just flips and lands in a rock hard point tail up every-time." I hope you enjoy every minute of every hunt.

 

[BritChaser]

Pointing is fine - I look at the wiggling tail as beacon for you. As for fetching problems, try rewarding her with a little treat when she retrieves to hand. Just a little positive reinforcement should do the trick. All round, sounds like a fine dog.