Anyone hunt with PL’s that point most/all wild birds? I’ve owned labs out of Pointing Lines for the last 20+ years-6 to be exact. 3 of the 6 point or pointed. P2 of the 6 have the exact same genetics and one points and the other doesn’t. None point most or every wild bird. If the wild bird holds , the ones that point will point it. Hunt tests and Pen raised birds are a different story. It’s like they know that it’s a pen raised birds and they’ll point regardless. I hunt regularly with others with TC and 4xGMPR dogs and I haven’t seen them point most or every wild bird. On the other hand, if the dogs on point there’s a 99% chance that there is a bird there. Golden Hour’s dog Sage is a good example of my experience. I kinda like the mix of pointing and flushing.
Pointing Labs
- Thread starter LCR10A
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LC Smith
Well-known member
Mine is hit and miss on true wild birds. Most won't sit long enough. I find most of the wild birds are either flushing right away or running. My boy is out of this pairing. My interaction with other handlers of 4X level dogs is about the same as you have described for wild birds. I've not hunted cattails like GH, but I imagine a PL might have a little better pointing success in that type of cover. Whisky (my boy) has locked up on wild birds in mixed environments/cover like milo, CRP, and wheat stubble in Kansas. In SD, he has a tendency to lock up a bit more on those birds, but we are hunting with a group in a lodge environment. I'm glad to see another PL fan on here.
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GladHunter
Member
My pointing lab has mixed success, not his fault I haven't put in the work in the offseason to teach that the point is the goal. If he air scents a bird he is much more likely to point, if he's ground scenting/trailing he doesn't stop until the bird goes up. The only wild birds he's really seen are pheasants which isn't ideal either.
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wingsnfins
Well-known member
My lab is not of a pointing lab line, but I worked alot with him to "point" when he was younger.
As said above, if the bird, either wild or GF holds tight, he will lock up, square his head and shoulders, tail will go side to side absolute crazy like and he will posture one leg forward.....if the bird so much as flinches, he's flushing it or grabbing it.
On GF birds (pheasants and chukars) the points are really good.....mainly because the "plant" of the bird....no tracking or trailing required. Those birds tend to hold.
Public land roosters in Wisconsin are 50/50 on how they react.....most are pen raised, thus why I called them public land birds. On true wild birds, same as above, if the bird holds, he's on it and it is usually within 2 feet of his nose. If it has moved, he doesn't waste any time getting on the track, he is deliberate and methodical on that....he has crossed up many a rooster trying to double back just by using his brain and experience.
On Wisconsin ruffed grouse, he's pointed about 2/3rds of the flushes.
Basically, he really reacts to the bird I guess and his experiences. He does hunt ALOT with 2 German shorthairs, so maybe he has picked up a bit from them too.....they hunt very well together. Either way, he's a hoot to hunt behind. His brother, who is owned by my BIL is the same way. They hunt 90% of their hunts together too.
As said above, if the bird, either wild or GF holds tight, he will lock up, square his head and shoulders, tail will go side to side absolute crazy like and he will posture one leg forward.....if the bird so much as flinches, he's flushing it or grabbing it.
On GF birds (pheasants and chukars) the points are really good.....mainly because the "plant" of the bird....no tracking or trailing required. Those birds tend to hold.
Public land roosters in Wisconsin are 50/50 on how they react.....most are pen raised, thus why I called them public land birds. On true wild birds, same as above, if the bird holds, he's on it and it is usually within 2 feet of his nose. If it has moved, he doesn't waste any time getting on the track, he is deliberate and methodical on that....he has crossed up many a rooster trying to double back just by using his brain and experience.
On Wisconsin ruffed grouse, he's pointed about 2/3rds of the flushes.
Basically, he really reacts to the bird I guess and his experiences. He does hunt ALOT with 2 German shorthairs, so maybe he has picked up a bit from them too.....they hunt very well together. Either way, he's a hoot to hunt behind. His brother, who is owned by my BIL is the same way. They hunt 90% of their hunts together too.
Limitless
Well-known member
My pointing lab, Sugar, was a true pointing lab. Solid points. Couldn't call her off a bird or get her to flush one if I wanted to.
She was out of Sauk River Retrievers, in Minnesota. They breed pointing labs. They also train any breed. I can recommend them without reservation.
In my limited experience, most pointing labs or other breeds that have picked up a pointing behavior, which might even be what I call a flash pointer (point for several seconds and then flush), won't have a first stop on a bird as far away as a regular pointing breed. I don't think it is all down to nose ability either. I think regular pointers are just more stealthy. Honey, my english setter and German wirehaired pointer cross, will slow way down and/or stop well before getting to the bird (if the wind allows for it), and then creep/stalk closer when I get closer to her -- think cat-like (and this behavior is with my blessing). Using that technique, she might end up right next to the bird, in some cases, by the time the dance is done.
The reason I mention this is because it is theoretically possible that a pointing lab might get too close to birds when young and end up bumping birds before their point kicks in. Without some reinforcement of the point and possibly getting them to be more cautious (pointing sooner), they may just be giving up on the pointing game, not seeing the benefit. This is just a guess. Nothing more.
If I had a pointing lab that wasn't pointing, and I wanted them to, I would get in touch with someone who trains a lot of pointing labs to see what can be done.
She was out of Sauk River Retrievers, in Minnesota. They breed pointing labs. They also train any breed. I can recommend them without reservation.
In my limited experience, most pointing labs or other breeds that have picked up a pointing behavior, which might even be what I call a flash pointer (point for several seconds and then flush), won't have a first stop on a bird as far away as a regular pointing breed. I don't think it is all down to nose ability either. I think regular pointers are just more stealthy. Honey, my english setter and German wirehaired pointer cross, will slow way down and/or stop well before getting to the bird (if the wind allows for it), and then creep/stalk closer when I get closer to her -- think cat-like (and this behavior is with my blessing). Using that technique, she might end up right next to the bird, in some cases, by the time the dance is done.
The reason I mention this is because it is theoretically possible that a pointing lab might get too close to birds when young and end up bumping birds before their point kicks in. Without some reinforcement of the point and possibly getting them to be more cautious (pointing sooner), they may just be giving up on the pointing game, not seeing the benefit. This is just a guess. Nothing more.
If I had a pointing lab that wasn't pointing, and I wanted them to, I would get in touch with someone who trains a lot of pointing labs to see what can be done.
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LC Smith
Well-known member
I want another pup with Rooster Smasher in the line no more than a generation or two deep.
LC Smith
Well-known member
Born of TGK and trained at HRK. You can just ‘tell’ when a dog is from Rooster. They have a look. Rooster is a grandfather to my pup.
Glock
Well-known member
Our youngest amigo is a granddaughter to Rooster as well.Born of TGK and trained at HRK. You can just ‘tell’ when a dog is from Rooster. They have a look. Rooster is a grandfather to my pup.
gock5
Member
The dog in my avatar is a daughter of Teddy from Cooperstown Kennels. Didn't point the first couple of years, doing better now (due to the lack of a good trainer, me). Great flusher and hasn't lost a bird yet. Picked up a granddaughter of Teddy in March, won't be hunting this year, not steady enough yet. But has a really good point already.
Teddy https://ckpointinglabs.com/our-dogs.html
Teddy https://ckpointinglabs.com/our-dogs.html
LC Smith
Well-known member
That boy is a legend! Where are you located?