What age should I send my dog away for training?

[goldenboy]

I kept a pup out of my last litter. I will take a pic and introduce her formally in another thread. I am looking to send her away for some bird dog/hunt test/handling training. My question is this at what age do you think I get the most bang for my buck? I am already working with her so she won't go without the basics down and a head start to learning. She was born on the 16th of August. Six months would be the middle of February. I am thinking either April, May, June. or June, July, August?

 

[westksbowhunter]

I kept a pup out of my last litter. I will take a pic and introduce her formally in another thread. I am looking to send her away for some bird dog/hunt test/handling training. My question is this at what age do you think I get the most bang for my buck? I am already working with her so she won't go without the basics down and a head start to learning. She was born on the 16th of August. Six months would be the middle of February. I am thinking either April, May, June. or June, July, August?

Depends on the dog really but generally about 6 or 7 months. Best thing to do is to get with your pro and decide what goals you are looking to accomplish. Most pros have a 3 or 4 month basic training program but don't get caught up with a trainer that puts them on a time table. Some dogs move through basics quite quickly and others are slow learners.

 

[GPowers]

My trainer said he wanted mine at 6 months for 2 weeks for gun breaking...that went great. Then he took her again at 8 months old for a month. He said she is ready to go and I get her back this Friday and I'm taking her to SD on Monday!
I only hunt upland and water train myself all summer, rather than running my dogs in the heat. So a good upland dog should only need about a Month to get things figured out. Advanced training comes later, if you are looking for hand signals. Goldens are easy to train...just takes them a year to get the "puppy" out. lol:thumbsup:

 

[goldenboy]

My trainer said he wanted mine at 6 months for 2 weeks for gun breaking...that went great. Then he took her again at 8 months old for a month. He said she is ready to go and I get her back this Friday and I'm taking her to SD on Monday!
I only hunt upland and water train myself all summer, rather than running my dogs in the heat. So a good upland dog should only need about a Month to get things figured out. Advanced training comes later, if you are looking for hand signals. Goldens are easy to train...just takes them a year to get the "puppy" out. lol:thumbsup:

GPowers if you don't mind me asking, who did you send your dog to? What breed do you own?

 

[GPowers]

Brian Roushar out at Major Ave. hunt Club. West Country Kennels.

She is another Red Lab, my second. So I have 2 reds and a Golden right now. the Golden is having health issues so I'm limiting her to the hunt club only. I did take the Golden to Montana this year for Huns... just a mess picking a million burr's off of her nightly.

 

[jonnyB]

Hey Joel: I have used Brian at West Country Kennels for the past three dogs. I sign for the intro. to birds, two-week session and use the Major Ave. Hunt Club facility for additional training, which I do myself.

Brian worked with Doken for several years and has been training dogs for a long time.

My Golden (Max) which you met, went through when he was about 6 month's old.

Hope this helps. Good photo's of the pup - hope the dog works out for you!

 

[jonnyB]

Burrs under the front legs!! Help!!

How to prevent? Shave all the hair? Max really got into the burrs last week in SD - took us about 20 minutes to cut them out.

 

[goldenboy]

Thanks Jon! I have found that a little preventative trimming before the hunt goes a long way to getting those burrs out later! I usually trim between the toes, feathering on the back of the legs, I trim around the ears and I usually cut the tail hair really short. They look a little funny for a month or so, but it sure does help with the after hunt brushing!

 

[jonnyB]

Thanks, Joel.

Have trimmed Max and cut out burrs and he now looks like a rough stray that no one would want. I did trim him before the hunt, but neglected under the front legs.

Wonder if a layer of Vaseline under the ft. leg would keep them off or reduce their numbers? I may try it on the next outing in SD.

Have you had any trips yet?

 

[GPowers]

Vegetable oil works great on the tail, they basically comb right out and towels off pretty good.

Or you can just get Labs and not worry about it..

 

[BeirlSetters]

I kept a pup out of my last litter. I will take a pic and introduce her formally in another thread. I am looking to send her away for some bird dog/hunt test/handling training. My question is this at what age do you think I get the most bang for my buck? I am already working with her so she won't go without the basics down and a head start to learning. She was born on the 16th of August. Six months would be the middle of February. I am thinking either April, May, June. or June, July, August?

I sent one of the two female pups I kept out of two different litters at 3 months to a friend who trains dogs. The goal was to get her back mid-Dec pretty much broke to the gun(done), pointing(getting better), honoring(getting better), and retrieving(done). Heard from him today that figures she will be ready for me to pick Nov 20th on my way out for trip #2 to SD if her training and learning curve continues at this pace. She will be five months and will have the basics of making a good english setter bird dog. It will be my job with repetition to bring it all into form. Really looking forward to it.

This is also the first time I sent a dog to a trainer. Typically I handle all of the training and my pups are hunting at 6-8 months and doing all of the above at an acceptable level.

 

[goldenboy]

I sent one of the two female pups I kept out of two different litters at 3 months to a friend who trains dogs. The goal was to get her back mid-Dec pretty much broke to the gun(done), pointing(getting better), honoring(getting better), and retrieving(done). Heard from him today that figures she will be ready for me to pick Nov 20th on my way out for trip #2 to SD if her training and learning curve continues at this pace. She will be five months and will have the basics of making a good english setter bird dog. It will be my job with repetition to bring it all into form. Really looking forward to it.

This is also the first time I sent a dog to a trainer. Typically I handle all of the training and my pups are hunting at 6-8 months and doing all of the above at an acceptable level.

Chad, Thanks for the info. Question for you. I hunt heavy cover for pheasants, my puppy at three months right now is pretty little to go into much cover for very long! I can see intro to guns by 5 months, I have already introduced birds, she is beginning to learn the basics of retrieving. I am going to Montana the 20th of November to hunt deer and birds what is your opinion about bringing her along? she would be about 14 weeks old?

By the way, very nice web site!

 

[jonnyB]

Joel...I'll jump in here and suggest the pup is probably too young for any hunting. Would assume you haven't introduced the gun, hence the purpose for bringing the dog?

While you deer hunt, what will the puppy be doing? Could be a lonesome time for a young dog...

 

[BeirlSetters]

Chad, Thanks for the info. Question for you. I hunt heavy cover for pheasants, my puppy at three months right now is pretty little to go into much cover for very long! I can see intro to guns by 5 months, I have already introduced birds, she is beginning to learn the basics of retrieving. I am going to Montana the 20th of November to hunt deer and birds what is your opinion about bringing her along? she would be about 14 weeks old?

By the way, very nice web site!

If you have the pup broke to the gun it can't hurt. I start my pups as soon as they are willing to take part. The more experience they can get in the field the better. I throw the pups in the mix absolutely every chance I get. Of course it does depend on the cover you are hunting. The pup might not be able to handle thick cover. I try to pick and choose areas I know the pups can handle.

Would you run the pup with older dogs or by itself? I am a firm believer the pups can pick up a ton from running with the older dogs.

My Abbie is at the trainer. I kept Indie home the second pup who is also just shy of 4 months now. I had her broke to the gun and hunting with the older dogs for woodcock at home in WI the second week of Oct. I took her and ran her in SD last week and she showed promise in the field. I didn't expect a lot from Indie last week because she didn't have the volume of bird contacts that Abbie is getting at the trainer. Indie will however get a crash course on quail starting this weekend. I have 30 birds on order that we will be working with over the next couple of weeks.

I am hoping to have her more experienced by trip #2 over Thanksgiving.

The website is enjoyed by many, thanks for the comment. My wife built and maintains the site. She also takes all the photographs. I keep telling her she is as good with a camera as I am with the gun. That always gets a good laugh.

 

[westksbowhunter]

Chad, Thanks for the info. Question for you. I hunt heavy cover for pheasants, my puppy at three months right now is pretty little to go into much cover for very long! I can see intro to guns by 5 months, I have already introduced birds, she is beginning to learn the basics of retrieving. I am going to Montana the 20th of November to hunt deer and birds what is your opinion about bringing her along? she would be about 14 weeks old?

By the way, very nice web site!

Pup is to young to hunt in my opinion. I don't hunt them until the basics are done such as obedience training, ff, and collar conditioning. Which is generally at about 8 months or so. Of course you can get all the bird introduction and intro to the gun before hand and should. I start my pups with a training pistol, not a starting pistol, at about 8 weeks. By the time the puppies are 4-5 months they are running marks in the field with a gunner. If you would like info on how to intro to gun let me know.

 

[41magsnub]

Chad, Thanks for the info. Question for you. I hunt heavy cover for pheasants, my puppy at three months right now is pretty little to go into much cover for very long! I can see intro to guns by 5 months, I have already introduced birds, she is beginning to learn the basics of retrieving. I am going to Montana the 20th of November to hunt deer and birds what is your opinion about bringing her along? she would be about 14 weeks old?

By the way, very nice web site!

I hunted my GWP starting at 16 weeks. Well, by hunted I mean she was gun conditioned and had the obedience basics down. She followed the adult dogs around and honored their points, then got to check out the birds they retrieved. Worked out great. If she wasn't a natural backer it wouldn't have worked out as well.

 

[goldenboy]

Typically I hunt my pup with the older dogs. I don't usually put them in front of a gun until they are charging hard after a bird and then they tend to never even hear the gun shot. I will probably do some controlled environment hunting to get her on birds before we do an all out hunt. But this thread is really about the question of when to send to a trainer. I like to hear stories of when guys have sent their dogs instead of opinions I know all the rules and suggestions I like to hear from guys like Chad who are telling me when they have sent their dogs and what they are experiencing. I have put the question out to my trainer also and I am waiting to hear what he wants to do.

 

[BeirlSetters]

Typically I hunt my pup with the older dogs. I don't usually put them in front of a gun until they are charging hard after a bird and then they tend to never even hear the gun shot. I will probably do some controlled environment hunting to get her on birds before we do an all out hunt. But this thread is really about the question of when to send to a trainer. I like to hear stories of when guys have sent their dogs instead of opinions I know all the rules and suggestions I like to hear from guys like Chad who are telling me when they have sent their dogs and what they are experiencing. I have put the question out to my trainer also and I am waiting to hear what he wants to do.

Golden,

Just a few comments to clarify my position for all who have commented. First I will agree with and can't contest other opinions of proper timing/training. There are to many variables when it comes to any one mans dog and its training.

I put my pups into the fold at a young age it's more for the exposure than anything. There is a ton of before, during, and after intense training for the pup. Once I have the pup broke to the gun I like to run them just to see what their natural ability is. I typically handle my own training and don't normally send pups to the trainer. I just happen to have a friend/customer who offered to train a pup for us in exchange for a pup down the road. Who in their right mind would turn that down? Two pups to train, middle of WI Grouse/ SD pheasant season, and an offer to take one pup and train it. Like I said that wasn't a long thinking/debating process.....

Throwing a pup into the mix early is by no means a trained dog I want to make sure that's clear. I hope I haven't given that impression it wasn't my intend.

Once again everyone has their own opinion on training and that's fine. I have a routine with my pups and it seems to work for me that's all that counts.

Golden- Good luck with the deer and the birds in Montana. Also keep in touch and let me know how the training turns out.

 

[FaceyKennels]

to the OP, Labs and setters are different dogs and training starts at way different times for each of them respectively.

Any trainer that will take a setter pup at 6 months to formally train is looking for a pay day. You can have such pup go through some sort of puppy program that focuses on getting the pup introduced to the gun, bird, fences etc,,, but by no means should there be any type of pressure applied. usually I get these dogs ready to "tag" along with their owners on low key hunts with no expectations. In this case you never want to expose a young dog to a hunting party.

Pointers/setters/brits/etc - (traditional pointing dogs) usually are mature enough right around the 1 year mark for formal training where they will endure lots of pressure. But if you have such pup that would rather chase his tail at 1 yr old, you need to wait. From what I have seen, dogs that have been trained too early usually develop some sort of problem and almost always have to be re-trained later on.

Another thing folks need to realize is dogs learn by repetition and being in the moment - 100% focus - like any professional athlete. You cannot expect to just drop a dog off for a week and then bring back 3 weeks later for another week and so on. Successful training is built on the last thing the dog learned.

www.faceykennels.com

 

[westksbowhunter]

Typically I hunt my pup with the older dogs. I don't usually put them in front of a gun until they are charging hard after a bird and then they tend to never even hear the gun shot. I will probably do some controlled environment hunting to get her on birds before we do an all out hunt. But this thread is really about the question of when to send to a trainer. I like to hear stories of when guys have sent their dogs instead of opinions I know all the rules and suggestions I like to hear from guys like Chad who are telling me when they have sent their dogs and what they are experiencing. I have put the question out to my trainer also and I am waiting to hear what he wants to do.

The proper way to introduce a dog to gunfire is at 8 weeks when you get the puppy. We start them by firing a training pistol at a distance of 100 yds while they are diving for the food bow. Each week we move in 20 yds or so till we get to about 50 yds. The dog associates gunfire with eating and pays no attention to it. It sees it as positive reinforcement. We also are doing the same thing with birds at 8 weeks. As the puppy is charging for the bird we are firing the training pistol at a 100 yds moving in gradually. By the time the pup is 3 months old we are throwing marks in the field and firing the gun. The gun is associated with the 2 things the dog likes best, food and birds. As we begin some upland work we also fire the gun on the flush at a distance.

What we don't do is fire a shotgun over a dog when it is flushing or pointing a bird for the first time. My dogs our Labradors and we don't ever shoot over there head until they are at least 6 months of age. Its called training not testing and it starts when you bring home your pup.

I stated early in the thread when to sent a dog to a trainer and when most trainers like to have a dog in for training. Do your homework and visit the kennels. Get opinions from several trainers, not just a few.

Asking opinions on here won't get you the answers you need. Regardless of what we all do, we aren't training your dog. You need to consult with a trainer.