Body Grip Trap. MN SF1325

[BRITTMAN]

Bla bla bla. How many of them stories can you prove to be true?

Got to admit I did not read his last one beyond blah, blah, blah ... It appears more like he is headed to a JB / JD coma.

The bill is likely going to stall ... again. Each year it inches closer. Support via the DNR, RGS, and even the Governor is progress. Those who support the bill really do need to contact their reps.

The greatest threat lies in ruffed grouse country, not to say there is not risk in pheasant country. I have switched to pheasant only after deer season ends and to be honest it has been very, very productive.

We need trappers is a plain fact or you can kiss many of your quality hunting opportunities goodbye. Its a simple fact that they play a vital roll in ridding us of nest robbers like the coon and skunk.

Nope - not really!

Delta research has shown the only effective time (help nesting game birds) is to trap is spring and it has to be intensive ... otherwise furbearers backfill into unoccupied land especially if it if full of prey. So FCS's spring trapping may have a very small measurable impact in his backyard.

Trapping is largely compensatory wildlife management ... it takes from the population that would die anyways (disease and starvation kill many). That is why you can trap the same areas year after year. You largely kill the young and the weak (no different than hunting) ... leaving the adult and highly effective predators to keep on hunting. If the upland bird population is healthy a few lost nests and hens to predators will not be noticed come fall. Again Delta has shown you need to trap at very intensive levels and even fence of the block of land being trapped for a measurable impact to be made.


Stealing coons ?? To be honest I could fill a pick up bed with roadkill coons (most of which are not crushed too badly). Trapping barely makes a dent in the population ...

 

[Lazer-UPH]

I will let it resume - I took it down to cool down a few people. As I can not get on here and control things daily, I do what I can to make sure people or individuals are not attacked. Ment to put it back up that night after going through it some, but never got around to it due to work.

Enjoy - play nice.

 

[1pheas4]

Oh thank God. It was becoming an end-of-the-world situation over here. lol

:cheers:

Nick

 

[BRITTMAN]

Bills will likely not get out of committee. I takes years to get change on the outdoors front. Each year more and more support is garnered. RGS and DNR support were big adds in 2015. It is not anti-trapping, just compromise.

It is far from just hunting dogs by the way ... it is just as often dogs out for a walk with their owner, farm dogs, etc... that are killed.

I would like to see some civil cases hit the courts by those losing dogs ... you (trappers using body grip traps) can often be "legal" yet liable. For those not setting legally both criminal and civil courts would be good.

 

[1pheas4]

Bills will likely not get out of committee. I takes years to get change on the outdoors front. Each year more and more support is garnered. RGS and DNR support were big adds in 2015. It is not anti-trapping, just compromise.

It is far from just hunting dogs by the way ... it is just as often dogs out for a walk with their owner, farm dogs, etc... that are killed.

I would like to see some civil cases hit the courts by those losing dogs ... you (trappers using body grip traps) can often be "legal" yet liable. For those not setting legally both criminal and civil courts would be good.

How many dogs where killed by conibear traps last season?

Nick

 

[birddemon]

The MN Dnr has confirmed 7 dogs were killed in Body grips...all within 90 days of the MN trapping season.
2 more were released quick enough by their owners and revived by CPR.

Trapping season is approx 6 months. In the past 18 months of trapping season, the MN DNR has confirmed 17 dog deaths. Wisconsin DNR has recorded 3 in that same time period.

Wisconsin has restrictive openings and recessed trap regs on their 220s. They also have 3,000 more trsppers and 25,000 square miles of less Land.

 

[1pheas4]

I don't want to (necessarily) down play those dogs that were killed or potentially lost, nor ignore the pain felt by those who lost their dogs, but out of the roughly 2.7 million dogs living in the state of MN, 7 is a remarkably low number.

I wonder if focusing attention on wolf management (particularly by grouse hunters/DNR) should be of more of a concern than 220's. 10 years from now wolf kills on dogs will most likely be a very serious concern as their numbers grow/wolves expand their territory into our back yards. I don't know. Maybe not. Either-way, I can see both sides to this issue. Though highly unlikely, God knows it wouldn't be fun finding my dog caught in one. On the other side, the conibear has been a tremendously effect tool for trappers for many many years. I can see how they wouldn't want to loose it one of their most effective tools.

Nick

 

[birddemon]

I don't want to (necessarily) down play those dogs that were killed or potentially lost, nor ignore the pain felt by those who lost their dogs, but out of the roughly 2.7 million dogs living in the state of MN, 7 is a remarkably low number.

I wonder if focusing attention on wolf management (particularly by grouse hunters/DNR) should be of more of a concern than 220's. 10 years from now wolf kills on dogs will most likely be a very serious concern as their numbers grow/wolves expand their territory into our back yards. I don't know. Maybe not. Either-way, I can see both sides to this issue. Though highly unlikely, God knows it wouldn't be fun finding my dog caught in one. On the other side, the conibear has been a tremendously effect tool for trappers for many many years. I can see how they wouldn't want to loose it one of their most effective tools.


Nick

When comparing the dog death numbers to other states that use body grips with regs that restrict access to dogs that number is extremely high. MN reporting 6x the number of dog deaths that WI has

This is not a ban on body grips. There is no reason that the same set for a raccoon should allow dog access. The simple fact that other top bird hunting states like WI, MI, NY, SD etc have put regs on BGs that effectively minimize the risk of a dog catch shows that the BGs can still be used responsibly.

I'm all for reinstating the wolf hunt. Management of the wolves is necessary, but a little out of context here since footholds and snares are used to trap them, not body grips.

 

[mutthunt]

Tell me how to keep activist judges in D.C. out of our business and I'm all ears. It's a shame a citiot on the east coast can trump what our local DNR says is best when it comes to wolves.

But that is a different thread.

Until trappers can actively be safe when trapping, non-trappers will have a larger voice when it comes to regulations. Their actions are posing a danger (small as it may be) to my dog. I would like those dangers minimized, like other states have done.

 

[1pheas4]

I'm all for reinstating the wolf hunt. Management of the wolves is necessary, but a little out of context here since footholds and snares are used to trap them, not body grips.

No. I wasn't saying they (conibears) were necessary to trap wolves--therefore we need to keep reg's as they are. My point was, wolves are killing our dogs at the same number or higher than conibears traps, yet the focus of sportsmen/RGS/DNR is on increased regulation on conibears traps.

Nick

 

[1pheas4]

Their actions are posing a danger (small as it may be) to my dog. I would like those dangers minimized, like other states have done.

But again, divide the "small" level of danger to your dog---2.7 million dogs/7 dog deaths, and chances of your dog getting caught are very low. Obviously, we who hunt where trappers MIGHT be trapping would bring the percentage up a bit, but still, the number of zeros lined up in the %/chances is extremely long. Chances of one of our dogs getting caught is low to the extreme.

I feel like this issue almost has a "the boogie man is coming" feel to it. It's based off of "what if" and "could happen" emotions. We love our dogs and God forbid one of them get caught. The thought of it is not fun and induces emotion, but again the fight is borderline throwing punches/swinging at a phantom.

 

[birddemon]

But again, divide the "small" level of danger to your dog---2.7 million dogs/7 dog deaths, and chances of your dog getting caught are very low. Obviously, we who hunt where trappers MIGHT be trapping would bring the percentage up a bit, but still, the number of zeros lined up in the %/chances is extremely long. Chances of one of our dogs getting caught is low to the extreme.

I feel like this issue almost has a "the boogie man is coming" feel to it. It's based off of "what if" and "could happen" emotions. We love our dogs and God forbid one of them get caught. The thought of it is not fun and induces emotion, but again the fight is borderline throwing punches/swinging at a phantom.

I don't understand why you continually ignore the fact that other states have minimized the risk of a dog catch in a BG while still allowing the BG to be used.

A friend of mine last Dec was grouse hunting with his setter. His dog got caught in a legal baited cubby. Luckily he and his friend were only 30 yards away from his dog and knew how to release the body grip. He still had to give his dog CPR.

If that risk can be minimized by a restricitve opening on a cubby set that will still allow a coon to enter but not a dog, why shouldn't that reg be in place?

 

[FCSpringer]

You driving your car poses a danger to my dog. Hey as long as your happy screw the rest of the world right LOL. I just cant understand why people who know absolutely nothing about trapping are such experts on the subject LMAO.

 

[birddemon]

You driving your car poses a danger to my dog. Hey as long as your happy screw the rest of the world right LOL. I just cant understand why people who know absolutely nothing about trapping are such experts on the subject LMAO.

Funny you should bring up cars. Even the driver of a car attempts to not kill a dog by swerving or hitting the brakes. Btw my dogs don't hunt in the road, so your car poses no danger to my dogs.
I would call swerving or braking a preventative measure to avoid hurting a dog. Just like restrictive openings and trap recess depth are preventative measures to avoid catching/killing a dog.

No one is screwing the rest of the world. The sky is not falling. Guys in other states are still successfully trapping with regs that minimize the risk to dogs.

 

[mutthunt]

But again, divide the "small" level of danger to your dog---2.7 million dogs/7 dog deaths, and chances of your dog getting caught are very low. Obviously, we who hunt where trappers MIGHT be trapping would bring the percentage up a bit, but still, the number of zeros lined up in the %/chances is extremely long. Chances of one of our dogs getting caught is low to the extreme.

I feel like this issue almost has a "the boogie man is coming" feel to it. It's based off of "what if" and "could happen" emotions. We love our dogs and God forbid one of them get caught. The thought of it is not fun and induces emotion, but again the fight is borderline throwing punches/swinging at a phantom.

As you alluded to, your numbers are off. I will give you that even if you accurately portrayed the number of dogs that are taken to the field, the incidence would still be low.

In regards to the boogeyman, that is an oversimplification as dogs have been killed and maimed. This is a real risk (despite how many zeros come after the period) that shouldn't be written off as a non-issue.

Just curious, do you hunt MN fields and grouse woods with your dog often?

 

[mutthunt]

You driving your car poses a danger to my dog. Hey as long as your happy screw the rest of the world right LOL. I just cant understand why people who know absolutely nothing about trapping are such experts on the subject LMAO.

FC, this argument is easily spun against you, and actually works better this way: Trappers are currently happy with the regs, so screw the dog people, right?


I'll admit, I am not an expert trapper. But I am pretty good with the safety on my scattergun. Society (and the law) expects me to be. And that is good.

Why trappers are so against holding themselves to a higher standard, I do not know.


I will tell you how I see this going: It's not going to pass this year. Just politics. Next year more dogs will get caught (probably another 6-7 dogs die, if the incidence stays the same). Pictures of killed and maimed dogs will circulate. Maybe the legislation will stall again.

The following year more dogs will die. More pictures will circulate. Maybe someone takes a video of their dog's last breaths. Eventually there will be more of public support for new regs (because, don't kid yourself, the general population likes dogs a WHOLE lot more than they like trappers).

And in all honesty, as liberal of a state as this is, I could see enough support drummed up, eventually, to ban ALL conibear traps. I really don't want that. I know that some slight modifications to the use of conibears will result in 0-1 dog deaths/year. Most of society (I think) is ok with that, and that 1 death/year would not likely cause a public circus.


My two cents. And thanks for reopening this thread. People who are interested in reading about this should hit this in a google search, and they can read both sides of the argument.

 

[FCSpringer]

Hog wash. I see dogs killed by cars all the time. Your grandma cant see. its a tragic slow painful death. CARS KILL. You should not be allowed to drive, its a privilege. And what I do on my land or other private land where I have permission is none of your business. If I want a trapper out there saving my crop, so be it. You have no right to tell me what I can or can not do on private land, it is not yours. Your car has little to no chance to stop even more so in the dark. I know several people in my family alone including 2! of mine that have been killed by speeding motorists. All died slow. I know of none of them that have seen, heard, smelled, or even noticed a trap. The reason a car is far far far more dangerous is because its Fact. And the avoiding part is exactly what trappers do, avoid you. Anyone with any common sence would know your car is a great danger to my dog. You've killed 2 already. Lady, and Roxie. My families dogs you killed were, Latea, Willow, Bandit, Shilo, Dude, Gege, and Britt. That's 8 in my family alone. Just from you driving past our property. So forgive me if I politely think this thread is a pile of rubbish.

 

[FCSpringer]

Well that's where your wrong you see. I can spin it toward the way you dislike just as easily. Why should you, or liberals as you put it, be able in a free society, tell me what I can or can not do on my land? Or tell any land owner what he can or can not do? Your right most of you have no clue whats real or fiction. You go by anti stories and propaganda. Yes the trapper is happy with the law as is, because there is no problem and this is all silly. I can come up with reasons all day why your wrong and I am right lol. But that's not what its about. Its about freedom, its about live and let live. If you knew anything about trapping at all you would then know there is no real threat, you would know just how important the tool is to a trapper, and you would know just how much they avoid confrontation. Your car as said is the real danger. Many of you probably have killed a dog your self with your car? Perhaps we should back down the speed limit to say 15 on our rural roads. Perhaps since you wish to dictate what I can or can not do on my land we should spread the word to put up more shiny sings that say, NO HUNTING. I think I will put flyers up in all cafes around letting farmers know you wish to tell them what they can and can not do to keep coon off the crop and destroying it. Lets see how many city slickers get permission when they find that out. After all many of them are the ones you killed their dog with your car, and also are the ones who have a good relationship with trappers. I can be as silly as the next. The difference is I tell it like it is, in a silly simple way with facts that we all know are real, as silly as they seem. Your facts are all fiction and "the zombies are coming" thinking. Also the difference is I don't ridicule or attack you like you do me LOL. I never told a single one of you your going to have a stroke, or your drinking too much JD for breakfast. But I can tell you no, next time you ask for permission to hunt my land and spread that word. Gotta go fellas, headed out to gather morels. PS I seen your question on my trap on my land. No, I do not own a live trap, nor do I release what I trap. I have a bird pen so raccoon gotta go.:thumbsup: Plus they pose a real danger to my dogs with disease, such as distemper, rabies and so on. Without trappers and the tools they need, it will be even worse.
:cheers:

 

[mutthunt]

1) Nice use of 'hog wash'. That term doesn't get used enough.

2) The car argument is just a distraction. It's comparing apples to oranges, and really doesn't do much to further the conversation.

3) I'm sorry that you lost so many dogs to cars. That sucks. I've lost a dog to a car, and it hurts.

4) I would be okay with more liberal regs on private property. On the millions of acres of public land, that is a different story.

edit

5) Again, I'll say I'm glad this thread is here so folks can hear both arguments. Good luck with the morels, FC. And on a side note, you breed some good looking dogs (I just noticed the link to your webpage). :10sign:

 

[FCSpringer]

I will stand against you firm and proud. And no, the talk about cars is not a distraction, ist a fact. I will stand firm against "any" new regs on mine or others private land. I will campaign very heavy for people in rural MN to say no from now on to access though. And I don't believe a trapper gives a hooie about your public lands as pretty much 99% of us never trap them:cheers:

But we do also have other terms other then hog wash. There is that old saying that has some meat, " Give em and inch and they steal a mile" Please stop worrying about traps, and watch out for dogs while your driving. Not only do you pose a real threat to my dog, I have seen you kill tons of birds and other wild life with them. Even out of season with no license. If you want to drive in rural MN, you should have to walk, or ride a horse.
:cheers:

Thanks, I really do have to go get some shrooms, you guys have a great day. Take care.