hot shot snake bite???

Toad

Active member
I was talking snake bites with the dogs' vet today, and she mentioned that some people use a hot shot on the bite. Apparently the electricity flowing between the two prongs somehow aligns the protiens in the snake's venom, causing it to be less damaging to the dog's tissue.:confused:

Has anybody ever heard of this? She said it was published in some dog magazines a few years ago, but that she had never tried it.
 
Never heard of that but going to ask my vet. I have my dog vac for rattle snakes every year. Vet did say that he has heard the rattle snake vac helps with cotton mouths as well.
 
I was talking snake bites with the dogs' vet today, and she mentioned that some people use a hot shot on the bite. Apparently the electricity flowing between the two prongs somehow aligns the protiens in the snake's venom, causing it to be less damaging to the dog's tissue.:confused:

Has anybody ever heard of this? She said it was published in some dog magazines a few years ago, but that she had never tried it.

I have responded to questions about snake bite treatment using D.C. electric current for several years on different forums. Usually someone steps in and talks about all the negatives. I probably treated around thirty to forty dogs for snakebite using a stungun. I m so convinced it helped that my stungun goes with me when I hunt and certainly when my dog goes with me. I can promise you if I were to get tagged by a snake, I will treat myself before I go to the emergency hospital, and have told my friends and my wife, both how to do it, and please, TO do it to me!

You can google search the subject and read all you want about it. Search for "Electric shock for snakebite treatment" or similar wording. The Doctor that began to report on the use of electric shock practices in Brazil. Brazil is home to some of the most dangerous snakes in the world. Get tagged by some of them and they will amputate with an axe on the spot! He started using electricity and reported good results. I would urge you to search these reports and sources for information. When I started using the stungun for therapy I had only access to the "Outdoor Life" article. It was very informative and inspired me to try it. I was greatly convinced that it helped my patients, and by the way , I first used it on myself! Trust me it is not a toy and should ONLY be used as described in the article!

I encourage you to READ all the information negative and positive! (no PUN intended)! I only ask that you read it with an open mind!

NOW, I will give you my opinion of why it is not accepted medical practice:
The medical profession is slow to accept ANY new therapy and it must proove itself, or be proved, as a therapy. Testing for anything is expensive! Treating for snakebite with a stungun is quick, easy, and cheap! One of my most difficult questions when using it was what do I charge? I had a friend who was bitten by a copperhead and treated with antivenom in a hospital. The bill was $54,000.00!!! I think put that in one hand and a stungun with three
half- second bursts of electricity in the other and you can see why it will not be researched! It is not profitable, so It gets poo pooed as an idea and largely squelched. I saw some remarkable things when I used it, such as relief of pain instantly and swelling within a few hours! I would like to see the Veterinary profession use this more and provide the research necessary as well as anecdotal evidence as to how and why it works successfully! I would be happy to talk with anyone interested and tell them my experiences. I type too slowly to fully respond here! PM me and we'll talk via phone. I am purposely leaving out much , because I feel it is imperative for one to drink deeply of the available knowledge on the subject. We in this country want the government to "Take are of all our needs!" and protect us from everything. In other parts of the world that do not have our FDA, many treatments are considered useful and very beneficial, that are not allowed here in the USA.

As an example of the arguments against using it, I offer this gem:
"Using electro shock treatment on a snake bit person might cause them to have a heart attack!" I believe some people have a heart attack at the mention or sight of a snake! I think the odds go up when actually bitten and there is pain too. The doctor could easily demo on himself what he is about to do. I routinely did this and spent a Looooooonnnnnggggg time explaining the theory and what to expect and what I would do in the treatment. The client had to agree to it or I did not do it!

I also used it on what I thought was a brown recluse bite. One on myself and one on a dog. The dog had been treated by me for a "hot spot" with steroids and antibiotics. A WEEK later the client called me and said he had quit eating and was no better. I advised her I thought at that point it might be a spider bite, explained the trearapy to her and she agreed to try it. I did and sent her home with the dog and asked her to report to me if he wasn't better by the next day. She called on her way home to report that she could tell he was better already! That was only 10 minutes off my table. She called when she got home and said he went straight to his food and ate. By the next week his lesion was gone! MIne did about the same thing but I never had any pain with the bite. It just wasn't healing. I shocked it and a few days later it was gone!

Your mileage may vary but I am convinced! Educate yourself then advise your vet to research it! I cannot believe the reluctance of people to even read about it. I believe if you do it right it will impress you and like anything else , do it wrong and you will be disappointed! I am retired now after forty years of practice. I wish I had thought to keep readily retreivable records of cases and pictures of results. I really thought because of how well it worked that everyone would be doing it! I was fooled. What is the saying? "Follow the money!" Hope I haven't bored you!
 
On the contrary, I was "shocked" :rolleyes: when I first heard about this last week, and somewhat skeptical. I posted it on here hoping that somebody would weight in with a personal experience and I really appreciate that you took the time to share. :10sign:

So you are using something like a stun gun, or taser? My vet mentioned a hot-shot, which I only know as being used to move stubborn cows.
 
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Nova stun gun! It uses a 9 volt battery and steps it up to 40,000 volts. PM me your number and I will call you and we can discuss it if you are interested. I am headed out the door right now for a Continuing Ed> meeting, but I'll be back about 9:30. Bill
 
I found these two articles with a quick google search. As many snake bites don't involve venom, studying the actual effects by using anecdotal evidence is not reliable. The actual evidence so far indicates that this is an ineffective treatment.

http://www.kingsnake.com/aho/pdf/menu5/davis1992.pdf

Until actual evidence is produced by US scientists showing this to be effective, I don't think I'll stun gun my dog if it's bit by a snake.

http://www.docsdetecting.com/docsplace/aoi/snakbite.html

I said up front you will see much negative in the literature. I do not believe it is all bunk because I have seen it work and work well on my patients who were having severe swelling and severe pain from the bites. I assumed and I believe rightly so that these animals had experienced envenomization but for giggles and grins you might also try this article:

http://venomshock.wikidot.com/

I put my info and experience out for those who might be interested and I don't expect many to believe it. I do not work for any company and neither does any of my family that would in any way profit from promotion of stun gun or even any other equipment that could be used for this treatment. I have nothing whatsoever to gain except that I did not accept the research that used for the most part rats and mice, which are most likely the number one animal programed by nature and evolution to be easily killed by snake venom. Putting it another way is to say that snakes that could kill their prey rapidly were more likely to eat and survive because they weren't injured by their prey (an yes rats and mice can injure and kill snakes). Snakes that could not kill their prey rapidly and without injury, didn't get to reproduce , therefore snakes evolved with venom highly toxic for their prey i.e. rats, mice and small animals.

I tried not to misinform anyone and suggested reading all the info there is to either accept or reject, fairly, the thought. There is a huge volumne of anecdotal evidence out there and I have to think there is merit in at least some of them. I do believe in Devine Faith Healings, but I do not believe that my successes were due to that belief, or perhaps only that I was willing to try it. I don't think it will be possible for any research model to work outside the clinical experience, and that will be limited in this country because of the FDA. Across the world many sucessful treatment modalities exist that will never be an option here in the USA because the stringent rules of the FDA. It isn't all bad, but it just is a fact. You would never get aspirin to be OTC now, period!

I still say "follow the money" Rats and mice are cheap as lab animals dogs less so and humans? The cost of research and development is too great to invest in researching a treatment that will only profit in less suffering and no $.

Anybody that wants to talk about it is welcome to PM me and I'd be happy to share what my experience was. I have shocked myself many times with my gun and never had a burn mark or any visible signs. Same for my patients butthe pain relief alone I have witnessed was enough to convince me of its value. Read the article I posted which was last updated in 2012 and scratch your head a little and see what you think. Nuff Said, and I'm out.
 
Bill, I greatly appreciate you weighing in on this topic, and clearly your input and experience is helpful. I did not get the impression that you were endorsing any specific products, and I honestly believe you have nothing to gain from this discussion other than the good feeling one gets from helping another.

Ditto to DougB.

I'm an open-minded guy and was just looking for information. Thanks to both of you for sharing your personal experience and the links.:thumbsup:

Snakebite is always a concern for those of us who are sharing fields with venomous snakes. This year especially for me, since I normally do most of my hunting in December but will be getting out early and often this year.:D

As an aside, I wonder what sort of volts/amps come from an E-Collar and whether or not there could be any benefit. I may check mine with a voltmeter just to satisfy my curiosity. If people in Ecuador are using spark plugs and cattle prods, then perhaps an E-collar on a high setting would be in a similar range. :confused:
 
I strongly recommend the outdoo life article as well. I believe that too high a voltage may give diminishing returns as well. Some modern ignition systems are (I think) way higher than the 20,ooo to 4o,ooo volt. I would not use them. I connecter two wires of 12 ga romex to my stun gun and I stripped about a half inch off of both wires and bent the ends so I had a rounded nontraumatic tip with which to touch the skin. I hold the wire ends firmly against the skin north and south of each fang mark deliver a shock by pressing the trigger to the bottom and release it as quickly as is humanly possible. I hear a "SNAP"! I then move the electrodes east and west and do it again. Then if anatomy permits I place one electrode on top of the fang marks and the other on the opposite side of the bite, deliver a shock, and then do the other fang mark as the same. That's it! I do not pass current through the body to pass through the heart or the brain or eyes! I call that common sense. Read also the writing by Dr Guerdian (sp?)
researchers can set aboout to prove just about what ever they choose and John Q. Public will never be the wiser. I offer our current political situation as evidence! There is a very interresting article about "Eat Saturated Fats, They are Good For You!" which may help you understand how "research" can be tainted and misconstrued to yield the results "science and medicine want! It is not about electro shock treatments but it is indicative of how data is gathered to prove an hypothesis! Global Warming is another!

As far as using the E. Collar I think it is quite possible it might work and would certainly try it if it was all I had, but I will have my stun gun rig with me and I know it works, so I'll use it. I hate to have the dog get the idea the collar is bad, but I guess it is six of one and half a dozen of the other! Any port n a storm I guess.

About any snakebite. I am saying I will do it to myself WHILE in the process of getting my rear end to a doctor! If it works ON me, like it has worked FOR me, when I get to a doctor, He/she will automatically assume it was a dry bite, period, end of story! As long as I am OK and not hurting, that's ok with me. It is their lost opportunity! That old saw about "A fool convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still!", applies to me too sometimes and perhaps did in the case of my first trying this deal, but now I am convinced because I have been a first hand witness. I do not blame anyone for being a skeptic. Lots of things work that we don't know why....Yet! I appreciate your comments and interest. Bill
 
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