Pattern

S

Sapphire

New member
Stemming off my question about 12 vs 20...

I know I could probably google shotgun pattern and get a boat load of info, but it'd be funner to bs about it with you guys.

So what is a "good" pattern? I know there are variables and such. If I take my guns out and "pattern" them... what should I do?

For example, my main hunting gun is a 12 O/U without interchangeable chokes, so I am pretty well set on what it has. It is also just a 2 3/4 inch gun. Should I "pattern" some 4's, 5's, 6's, and 7 1/2's... what will I look for? Each barrel is different. Pattern each barrel, with each load at several ranges out to???? 50 yards? Or is that too far? Start at 20? I forget what the chokes are... you guys probably could tell me just from common knowlegde. The top barrel is tighter, I do know that from a guy that looked at it and told me so..he was using a dime or nickel or something to gauge them...

The gun is a 68' Mauser Model 72E.

Thanks!
 
The choke tubes make the answer almost infintesimal. All combinations of powder load, wad or shot cup, hull type, shot size, shot density, shot hardness, choke tubes in both barrels, even the brand of primer and don't forget the brand of ammunition makes a difference as well. Most useful information is the range at which you shoot most of the time, standard distance for testing is 35 yards, but of only limited value if your a 20 yard lightning bolt, or a 60 yard far killer. Moral of this story, the Victorian era shooters were really good, because they had their guns fitted to them personally, and the shot a heck of a lot, knew what loads did what at certain ranges. Their guns came with pattern boards from the gunmaker, showing the pattern acheived with a certain load at a certain distance, done by some master craftsmen at great expense and effort by hand with a bore hone and a box of shells, one shot, and a few percentage points at a time.
 
Interesting, thanks Oldandnew!

Bottom line is, I'll likely be just buying some more 6's and going hunting... ;0)
 
A little testing with the loads you want to use is a good thing! Makes you a better shooter and gives you confidence in the load. There are loads which for what ever reason just do not shoot well in certain guns, which is really what you wanted to find out anyway. Good hunting.
 
Shoot Some Patters!

You really need to shoot at least a few patterns with the loads you like. It doesn't need to be rocket science. Get some butcher paper or anything that will give you 30"X 30" at least. Set it up at the distance you will do most of your shooting. Then....from a rest.......shoot at a circle you make in the center of the paper. Shoot at least three patterns. The main thing is that it isn't way high, low, left, or right. If it is, it's good you checked so it can be corrected. Also, you don't want big "open" areas that a bird could slip through.

It will help you confidence as you will know the gun is "ON".

Lock and Load! :D
 
You have been given some wonderful advice. I am going to add one more thing.
Take a dead pheasant and put it out to the range you feel you do most of your shooting at. Do not shoot the pheasant again.

Mount your gun and make certain the sight picture you get is about the size you recall the birds being when you shoot them.

Take an accurate measurement from where you are to where the bird is.

Figuring out accurate range in the field can sometimes be tricky but by doing the above. You have a mental sight picture of the bird and you now know the exact range you tend to shoot birds at.

The rest is patterning as stated above.
 
This is a very interesting exercise! I would use a stuffed pheasant if I could find one...most stores sell everything but!

And it's amazing how far out 25 - 30 yards is when you use a long tape.

I plan to try this; only 5 degrees out, so I think I'll postpone.
 
I patterned my new Browning 625 Citori last year at about 20 yards with several of the chokes. The pattern was centered and vertically biased with about 60% of the shot hitting above the center and 40% below, as designed.
 
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Good point Michigan... I need to do something like that. And my 12 yr old daughter needs to do it to see "what" a shotgun does...

Thanks all, great advice.
 
On another note, it will be interesting to see what my old 410 does at say 10-15 yards. i'm sure its a full bore. My daughter had a HELL of a time hitting clays with it, and she was pulling the trigger on them at pretty close range, probably never over 20 yards. I bet its a tight little pattern. She doesn't seem to have too much trouble hitting them with the 20 gauge....

I shot a lot of doves and band tails with that 410 when I was her age...but I did A LOT more shooting that she does too.
 
Try This

Here's something I have done to get kids hitting with a shotgun. Find a place where you can hand throw some clay birds accross water. An old flooded gravel pit is what I have used. Both of you can then see where the shot is going and I'll bet in a few shots they will start hitting. It worked wonders with my son.

That .410 will be very very tight.


Lock and Load!: :D
 
Sapphire- I could post a few patterns- I have 2 20's- use 7 shot I load- most of my shooting is right around 25 yards- I like 1 ounce as it fills the pattern nicely and doesn't actually destroy a bird- so in reality it is quite good from 20-30 yards- held birds- so that's the range I wanted to work up a load- wallmart has that brown wrapping paper most times- 24" and 30" rolls- I have and like skeet tubes for that range- improved cylinder is also good

I have tested 6 shot, 5 shot, and 4's- can't quite get a good pattern past 30 yards- just the way it seems to be with my 2 20's and bigger shot- bought a TrueLock skeet II extended tube- actually got 5 more yards same pattern same 7 shot load- ordered another- little tight at 20 yards so mentally I let the pheasants get out there just a bit

Randy has some real good points about patterning and shot at distances- it's not science though- you just need to know what your gun will do at the ranges you intend to shoot- so that is the range you would try to get a good pattern with a good choice of load and pellets- even some of the cheap shells can do quite well- if you actually pattern them at your range you figure to shoot

don't know about just getting some 6 shot and going for it- might be quite good- wouldn't you really like to know though

Michigan Gunner made a good point

for your daughter there is another that is quite fun- package of balloons- fun blowing them up- setting them out a little ways-

another way- fill with water- hang from a tree branch

my brother has a Browning 12 auto- when we hunted together he did have an advantage- he would usually say "I like the extra pellets with the heavy load as it blast the tree leaves, branches, and if nothing else, clears things for the 2nd and 3rd shot"

yes- he would empty his 12 if necessary- he was pretty quick- most birds he would get on his 2nd or 3rd shot
quite fun to hang back and watch as he stepped in on a covey rise- we really had some laughs-

he had the advantage on roosters when we took just the flushing dogs-

story I have of us with the pointing dogs- he threw down his gun cursing- never got even a feather- 5 shots- I didn't say a word
 
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Yeah Shadow, you are definitely right. We will pattern for sure here in a couple months when it warms up a bit. I am real curious to see how my guns will show...

Thanks for all the good info!
 
too me- knowing what my load does at the range I expect to shoot gives me confidence-

really like 7/8's oz 8 shot for doves and quail-
wanted the same pattern but with 7 shot for pheasant- 2 young Britt's I wanted to hit them a bit harder so they wouldn't have to deal with a wounded but alive rooster- quite pleased with the 7 shot-

enjoy patterning- you see some eye opening results- plywood makes a good backstop- once you have your load and range- shoot at the other side once and it sort of gives you an idea of how hard your load hits
 
Patterning can be fun and the results can work negatively on your mind takemn too seriously....worry little about holes in a pattern. Rather look for distribution within the pattern...or as I do...look only at the outer 5" of a standard 30" pattern @ 40 yards.
One can, with the manipiulation powder, shot, etc. work to put more pellets in that 5" which will help with gamebirds...or find a better factory load.

Patterns at 20 serve to do little but indicate pattern placement. Once the gun is shooting fine re placement to the point of aim then 20 yard patterns yield little.
Basically, at that range and under, one looks for pattern spread rather than anything else...IE: for a good woodcock load.
Shoot on paper at 18 or 20 or 40 yards...all else pretty much is a waste.

Patterning @ 16 can help if you are looking to do stock work tho....it is the standard distace for that procedure.

Don't shoot against wood as one will get bounce back and more holes in the paper. Shooting at a plate yields little info of value.
Use 36" kraft paper on cardboard.
Cut a 30" circle from plexiglass with the 24" center removed...this will enable you to easily place and draw the circle relative to the pellet concentration.

Have fun and do not sweat the results....too much.
 
really-

you want me to put up 3 patterns out of my Upland Special- 20 yard cylinder- 25 yard skeet- 30 yards SKII- against plywood same load

quail covey rise over a point I was particular with 7/8's 8 shot cylinder tube

pheasants over point I prefer skeet 1 ounce 7 shot- SKII is nice also- 5 more yards- I like to know exactly what my shells are doing-
 
You point the gun correctly, at 20 yards...every bird dies, regardless of shell or choke used.
Other than some extreme examples and with preferred pattern placement versus point of aim.:)

Can't imagine a better load for quail than 7/8-8s, given a covey rise...cylinder would be dandy, to a distance.

Not all interested in your patterns, Shadow...I buy pattern paper by the 8" roll.
You really have nothing to tell me.
Enjoy your preference...of anything and for anything.
 
If you are looking for a some good literature on the subject, especially as it applies to pheasants, check out Larry Brown's From a Pheasant Hunter's Notebook. He has an entire chapter on chokes, shot sizes, and patterning specifically dealing with how to most effectively kill a pheasant with a shotgun.
 
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