wire hair scared of first real bird encounter

[dustin mudd]

Hi i took a guy to a preserve yesterday, one last trip for my old Lab who is approaching 14 years for her final pheasant hunt.

He has a 9 month old wirehair, who he has only played with and taught basic obiedance. I know nothing about pointer training and was thinking bird exposure would be good. However i thought it might be unwise to shoot over a dog????

Here is the situation we got my lab finished, and were just strolling his dog thur the cover, without a planted bird. When she crept toward a formerly released bird, which we did not know was there, on which the pheasant flushed the owner shot, and missed. He was app. 15 yards from the dog, but shot over the top of the bird. The dog who had crept toward the bird, after the shot, now yelped like shot with 480 volts! (no collar on the dog), and ran back towards him . I thought gun shy for sure!!!

WE decided to plant a bird for his dog, later but no shooting to get the dog excited, after teasing her with freshly killed birds. We knew exactly where the bird was, half way there on the walk a bird flushed , again an unknown bird. She watched that bird fly until gone.... Whe we got to the spot that the bird came from she went on a great point, perhaps a minute after it flushed.

In a couple of minutes we were where the bird was planted , and she smelled , and saw the rooster in the tall grass from 5 yards away. She recoiled as if bit, barked, and came back to us... The bird ran for 50 yards off and on, thru tall grass where we could follow, she stayed at the owners side the entire time, and didnt challenge the smell or sight of the bird. and would not chase.

NOT SURE if the shots or smell is what she fears??? ADVICE PLEASE FROM experience pointer folks... My labs just charge everything!!!!!

 

[oldandnew]

Dog training is like the good attorney says, never ask a question you don't already know the answer to! In that vein, I think your instincts were correct in thinking shooting was premature, because we don't know what the response was going to be. Could be that the dog now associates the scent and presence of a bird, to the impending muzzle blast of the gun, and now blinks birds as a precaution to avoid the gun shot. Could be pheasants by size are intimidating to the dog all by themselves. All in all not a very satisfactory turn of events. Now what to do, I would suggest a trip to a professional who specializes in gunshy dogs. You can find my description of the routine in previous gunshy articles on this forum. It is very difficult to do a chain gang yourself because you need a sizable number of finished dogs and others in all stages. 30 days of using bird drive, with pigeons or quail, less intimidation, to overcome gunshy should see a lot of progress. Some lessons are hard, we have all taken short cuts, sometimes we get lucky, I know I certainly have, more than once, sometime we get bit. I bet and I hope, we don't do it again next time. Take heart,dogs are smart, and most things can be overcome.

 

[bobeyerite]

I have stated many times on here, it is simple to break a puppy to the gun. You start immediately, when you get the pup, with blank pistol. I have told how I do it many times on here. I have never had a dog flinch at a gun shot. The owner now has problems, would it not have been easier to break the dog at a young age with a light caliber blank pistol........Bob

 

[FCSpringer]

I have stated many times on here, it is simple to break a puppy to the gun. You start immediately, when you get the pup, with blank pistol. I have told how I do it many times on here. I have never had a dog flinch at a gun shot. The owner now has problems, would it not have been easier to break the dog at a young age with a light caliber blank pistol........Bob

Yes Just read Shadows thread on this subject, and this is exactly what I have been saying.

 

[V-John]

She's associated something scary (gunshot) to the pheasant.

Time to start over, with gunbreaking and bird association.

 

[Chuckles]

I would think you could get some pigeons to start and just get her excited about birds. If she is tentative with a live bird, give her a dead one to investigate. Move to live and pretty soon she'll prob love birds and that will transfer to pheasants in the future.

 

[dustin mudd]

thanks, all.... i asked the owner of the wire hair to log on , and see the suggestions..... I hope he takes a look at the GREAT advice from you all!

His dog deserves good efforts, to gain confidence. Most of us know the joys of having a great bird dog and how much fun that relationship can be!

 

[Dog Gun Time]

I would put the gun away and try to find some pen raised quail and for this particular situation I would try find weak flyers. Take her to an area where she has had good experiences and above all, do not take her back to the same preserve. I would release a bird right in front of the dog and let her chase it and catch it. Do not try to stop her from chasing, do not try to take the bird from her, just praise her up. When she gets to the point that she is pouncing on the quail she sees you release, I would try putting out a bird while she was still in the crate/box. When you release her from the crate, if she sees the bird and immediately goes after it, fantastic. Then I would hide a bird and let the dog hunt for it using her nose. Again if she points it praise her up, if she flushes the bird let her chase it, catch it whatever she wants but whatever she does you praise her for it. What I am trying to do is build up the prey drive through positive associations with game birds. I prefer quail over pheasant just because of the size of the bird. It's much easier for a dog to get wounded by a big bird like a pheasant.

I would not begin to re-introduce the gun until she going after the birds pedal to the metal. When she is chasing a bird hell bent to catch it, I would try a shot with a light caliber blank pistol at a considerable distance. If she shows no reaction to the shot, then begin to move gradually closer. I would not begin to try and steady her on point until after she is showing no reaction to gunfire. This is a long process that will require a lot of patience and perseverance and there are no guarantees as to the outcome.

 

[Shadow]

Gun Dog Time- nicely said

I'd like to ask one question- to FCSpringers- just what do you mean- you pointed me out
I've never had a gun shy dog and every dog I've had I've raised from a 7 week old pup to a nice old age
that would be quite a few since 1969

and- low and behold- I would ruin a 4 month old by taking it hunting in pheasants- isn't that what you are refering to

 

[FCSpringer]

Don't think I was pointing you out, cause I was not. The thread simply talked about it. It was one you started for refrance is all. Unless I am mistaken. Many talked about not having a pup get a pheasant for the first experience, thats what I am refering to, not you sir. Take care

 

[Shadow]

ahh sorry- will do-

I like bold pups-

never have understood a shy dog- meaning- why was it picked- or what happened after 7 weeks

 

[esetter1]

I would put the gun away and try to find some pen raised quail and for this particular situation I would try find weak flyers. Take her to an area where she has had good experiences and above all, do not take her back to the same preserve. I would release a bird right in front of the dog and let her chase it and catch it. Do not try to stop her from chasing, do not try to take the bird from her, just praise her up. When she gets to the point that she is pouncing on the quail she sees you release, I would try putting out a bird while she was still in the crate/box. When you release her from the crate, if she sees the bird and immediately goes after it, fantastic. Then I would hide a bird and let the dog hunt for it using her nose. Again if she points it praise her up, if she flushes the bird let her chase it, catch it whatever she wants but whatever she does you praise her for it. What I am trying to do is build up the prey drive through positive associations with game birds. I prefer quail over pheasant just because of the size of the bird. It's much easier for a dog to get wounded by a big bird like a pheasant.

I would not begin to re-introduce the gun until she going after the birds pedal to the metal. When she is chasing a bird hell bent to catch it, I would try a shot with a light caliber blank pistol at a considerable distance. If she shows no reaction to the shot, then begin to move gradually closer. I would not begin to try and steady her on point until after she is showing no reaction to gunfire. This is a long process that will require a lot of patience and perseverance and there are no guarantees as to the outcome.

IMO this is an excellent suggestion. Give the dog a wing clipped bird (pigeon or quail) and let it get excited about birds again without any gun shots. It sounds like the dog has associated being scared out of its mind from the close gun shot to birds. Letting it beat up on some birds and carrying them around a while will help it get some boldness back.