Why a Pointer

mnmthunting

mnmthunting

Banned
Don't get me wrong, just wondering. I'm thinking a pointer breed pup by fall.

So far in my 40 something years of hunting pheasants I've had Labs. Flush type dogs, catch them if they can, and hardly ever miss a cripple. So, My question is? Should I go to a pointing type pup? This is serious.
 
I hunted with flushing dogs for 20yrs and never owned a pointing dog, As I said in other threads I rescue a Pudelpointer this past Feb. I took Gunner out a few times on control hunts and a couple of private club hunts. I can say it was very enjoyable, to see what a pointing dog was supposed to do, even though Gunner needs a little training which I am prepared to do, it was an awesome sight to see him point birds.

I hope this helps, What type of pointers are you looking at???
 
One heck of a loaded question .... and everyone will have their OWN opinion.


Pointing dogs perform well when the dog is looking for "random" birds ... they are breed to be athletic with noses designed to smell birds in cover ...

IMHO - point dogs out perform flushing breeds in the situation described above and where it is just one or two hunters in cover probably a litte too big for them.

Flushing dogs work best when you are driving a piece of cover in an established pattern (drives). Flushing dogs typically quarter the given area in an owner controlled pattern. Flushing dogs are a good answer for those who hunt in larger groups of hunters.

Pointers search out past the owner defined box and find birds.

Both pointers and flushers are excellent pheasant dogs.
 
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My Brittany works 2 ways he will sometimes circle and sometimes quarter. He does what he wants to do. He finds the birds and knows a heck of a lot more about where the birds are and what they are doing than I do.
As to the question what is the best pointing dog? It is the one that makes you happy. For me in my elder years, I think Brittany's are great, I have an American Brit now. But He is nine and getting a too far ranging. For these old legs to keep up in the Hills of the Washington Palose. When Tony gets to old to hunt. I think my next dog will be a French Brittany for they are a little closer working dog. Some younger hunters call them "boot polishers" for their close working. I offer this as a statement of what you can expect from a Brit. They are also a very loving companion dog and they will give you their all every time out. Mine just loves children, he wants to lick them to death. Believe it or not my Tony worries about me. If I cough or something like that he right there making sure I come out of OK. When I get injured he lays by me and puts his head on my stomach to check on me.
 
mnmthunting,

You sound a lot like me. I spent the first 40 years of pheasant hunting either without a dog or with flushers (Springers and Labs). 13 years ago I got my first pointing dog, a Brittany. Now three Brittanys later I could never go back to a flushing dog. Just something about a solid point that really turns my crank! The look and intensity in the dogs eyes when you walk up to them tells you there is a bird under their nose. It's addictive.

I say go for it. Get a pointer. Of course I'm partial to Britts, but there are a bunch of good pointing dogs out there. Regardless of breed do your homework. Check out the breeder and previous litters, also the pup's parents and grand parents. And don't be afraid to pay for a good pup.

Good luck and let us know what you dicide.

Dakotazeb
 
moellermd said:
I will not take the bait, I will not take the bait.:confused:
Click to expand...

Go ahead Moellermd, take the bait.

I had Springers for almost 40 years, and I can tell you that they are awesome dogs all the way around. I now have a Vizsla for the last four years. I love to watch him hunt the prey, and lock up on a good point, and allow me to get in a ready position. I do agree with Brittman on this one. I can stay in one small corner of a field and watch my dog cover almost ever inch of it and turn out several pheasant just standing waiting for him to do his job. I find with my pointer it is critical for me to be patient while my dog methodically works each part of a field. With my Springers, I was would follow them waiting for the thrill of the flush. Unfortunately, I don't have a big enough house for all of the hunting breeds. :eek:. I am sure I will own another Springer Spaniel sometime in the future however!
 
Ok I'll bite

I agree with BRITTMAN that it depends on the type of cover you are hunting. I do not agree with his analysis as to why to get what type of dog. Both pointers and fl ushers/retrievers are hunting with there nose and are actively looking for birds. The difference is when they find the bird and after the bird falls. A pointer will point and the flusher/retriever flushes. When the bird falls flusher/retrievers are GENERALLY better at marking and retrieving the dead/wounded bird. Depending on the type of cover you hunt one might be better than the other. Example, I hunt a lot of dried up/frozen cattail sloughs. I generally walk the edge while the dogs run inside looking for birds. A pointer would do me no good in this case because I could not see them point nor would I want to trudge in after him to kick up the bird. What I do want is when I shoot the bird for the dog to find it and retrieve. This is the same reason why large hunting outfits probably run labs. They hunt a lot of corn/milo and could not see dog points (plus if a dog did point 20 guys would all be running to flush the bird :D)

When I do hunt grass short enough to see the dog I sometimes think it would be nice to have a pointer. If I hunted more cover like that I might get one.

The important thing about these conversations is that we are speaking in general terms about breeds of dogs. Are there pointing dogs that hunt dead and retrieve great? You bet. Just like there are labs that point. But generally thinking each breed has its advantages and disadvantages. It all depends on what you want.

I use labs because mine were free and they fit well with what and how I hunt. I will say this every breed can be a great hunter the key is training and in my mind volume. My dogs were good because they get to get to hunt a lot (NICESHOT can chime in here).

There I have said my piece let the flogging begin.:eek:
 
Many dogs can be effective game finders. I belive it depends on what style "you" like. I have hunted setters for tweety five years and still love watching them hunt and lock into point on a dead run. That being said I have a little beagle hound that is my house dog and I hunt rabbits with her on occasion. She has a exelent nose and also runs pheasants. I see as about as many birds with her as with my setters.If you shoot one and he runs you can bet she will track him down,and you don't need a bell or bepper to know where she is!
 
Moellermd, I have read quite a few of your threads and responses and just when I thought you were the smartest hunter around (I will not bite, I will not bite) lo and behold I check a little further and you bit!!!!!!!!! Now I know you are just a "hunter".:)
 
20thunderjet

sorry to disappoint but my poor little labs can only take abuse for so long.
 
Well I am with you in do you dare take the Bait too, But what the heck, First of all, Go for it if that is what you want "I would".
But for some one to say that flushing breeds are not ment for smaller groups is "well" um "well" I don't even know what to say. I have seen too Many times lately what happens when you stick up for what you believe in on here. Flushing dogs can hunt with ANY number of people. And can be found to be verry BOLD in every type of cover for any bird, any state, any cover.... And to think that a flushing breed is not athletic is "Well" Um I don't know what to even say. I can't tell you how many finds over 40 yards my dog has found, what a nose. And when the ears perk up and they accelerate into the flush from so far away, you know what to be ready for.Then comes the leap in the air after the bird and the steady dog to allow the safe shot. What a rush. then the Marking skills come in after the bird falls 50- 75 yards away from the dog and buttons the retrieve to deliver it to hand nicely. I have never ran in cover to big, that does not exist.And well a defined box "WELL UM", I don't even know what to say. I let my dog go and find birds that is what they do...... When ya go hunting somewhere, Its not what you drove to get there it's what gets out of the vehical when you get there, And you run what you brung. I like the versatility, athletisim, birdfinding, drive, toughness, and loyalty I get in my flushing breed. I have seen some very nice pointers too but there not for me, wouldn't want one.They just won't work where I hunt alot, Plain and simple fact, or I would have one or two or three.But I do know I can take a good Spaniel and come hunting where ever you want for just about every bird on the planet. Even Texas, thats where I am at now.Yes I agree with the above statement about pointers covering big fields, this has been the thorn in my side for some and I say some of the pointers, they clear the field of birds so many times, at least I have seen it too many times. I cant' take that. Yes there are alot of them that probably hunt within gun range, But I need to be shown a realy good one because I have never ever seen what I would like in a pointer. I guess I will have to take a hunt with some of you guys to show me different. I can definately take you and show you the oppisite of the comments past. I have seen the national field trials they do on horseback with pointers but that kinda leaves me scratching my head too, I don't have a darn glue maker.Maybe an ATV could keep up.? I have seen some pics. on this forum of a guy's pointers I would like to see verry much. But will still never own one. I can see in some of the predominatly quail states where you would have possibly abetter use for one. But "Well Um" I don't even know what to say. Have a good One Guy's. And good luck with your new adventure with the pointing dog.
 
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FCSpringer

I would have to agree with a lot of what you are saying. I was trying to say it a little more diplomatically :). I have a feeling you have opened the flood gates now. Enjoy your flogging. :cheers:
 
I hope he doesn't get flogged for saying what he said. I read, "pointers aren't for me." and, "I prefer to hunt any bird with a flusher." Can anybody honestly disagree with what somebody says is their personal preference? :confused: Not unless you know him better than he knows himself.

As for the original question, "should I get a pointer?" My response is the same. Nobody on this site knows you better than you know yourself. Ask yourself how much room you have in your kennel and what's the best breed of dog to fill that space with. Be prepared to stand behind your decision for 15 years or so... That's my advice.
 
Thanks for the comments. My old Lab is 13, still goes pretty good but tires fast and I don't want to work him. I also have a 5 year old that is outstanding. I'm thinking Brittany pup by Fall. I will always have a Lab, much of my hunting is mixed bag. Cattails and water, Mallards and Pheasants. Hard hunting for me and the dogs. A good place to get #
As for the upland hunting, I like the big grass and weed fields, I spend most of my time hunting this stuff, easy walking, good visibility. Not that many pheasants where I hunt, but not many hunters either. Pheasants run in this stuff, often flying out of range. How would a pointer work in the type stuff.
 
Spectacular! that is the type of cover they realy get to do there job. I am not trying to get a flogging match going here either, Just pointing out my narrow observations. Up here we see a ton of flushing dogs, some GSP's and Brits. but not too many of the english pointers and others. But if you seem to travel south to the open country say Kansas, Neb, Oaklahoma, ect, It seems to be the Oppisite. And those states in the lower mid west do have the Quail. I can take a little ribbing about a breed of dog like we all will have to from timeto time, But am also willing to dish a little back too. Don't want anyone takeing this to harsh because it realy is not, Writeing can be interpited in many tones, Please keep that in mind. If I lived in an area like that and that was the dominant cover I am sure I would Be Owning some pointers. Not saying I hate them or they are no good, just simply not for me here. I hope you find a real nice one to enjoy.;):cheers::D:)
 
My 2 cents

Hi All, first time posting, but I am sitting here passing the time until I can hunt the last 2 days of the season. love to talk hunting, so here goes.
I have hunted behind flushers(labs,english cockers) for about 15 years. i think most people believe their breed and their dog is the best, which is understandable, and certainly every breed will have superstars and mediocre dogs. I have never owned a hunting dog until last year when I bought a red setter. wanted something different, something you don't see much, and a breed that has a mellow temperment as she is an inside dog. i live in SE nebraska, so I will see pheasants and quail on most hunts. I think the best thing you can do is teach a few commands get them on birds and let the instinct take over. i have heard people get on big running dogs about getting birds up out of range, etc. but from what I have seen when a dog "bumps" a rooster, most of the time that rooster is not going to sit for any breed. if he is trucking through a field there is no stopping him, except for the end of the field. there are drawbacks to every breed, for instance my setter is not a natural retriever(hoping to force break her this offseason), but she has found cripples this year before the cockers and GSP's, and I guess that is the most important thing, but it sure would be nice to have her bring it back and drop it in my hand. another issue for a pointer is quail. nothing like seeing a pointer locked on a covey 40 yards ahead, where you have the time to walk up, get in position, break the covey and then miss twice:). and then finding singles is just a blast. my experience is that flushers will occassionally wild flush some coveys(I am sure I will catch it for that comment) now if I lived in SD or MN, I would probably have a springer or a lab since it is mostly pheasants, but with the windbreaks, fencerows and draws where I live, it sure is nice to let the dog run up those spots so I don't have to. ok, enough rambling. would love to hear how people have done this year hunting, but I will post that on another post. good fortune, God bless.
 
I will start off by saying, This cannot be taught at least I don't teach it or have never heard of it being taught. But My Brit Tony, will only point a running rooster 2-3 times. Then he'll cut out and circle in to get the pheasant. He likes to be in front and little to the side. Then he goes on point again. It does stop the rooster from running. But usually instead of holding it will flush as I approach. I feel it something they have teach themselves. I was lucky it took only a few seasons and Tony started doing this.
 
FCS and Prairiepork, Good info, thanks, good to visit with hunters. The pup I get will be with me for a long time, ride in the cab and when not hunting be a house pet. For sure the pup will get a lot of opportunities to hunt. I took this pic a couple days ago, current pups have had enough fun, time to go home get some food, lay by the fire, It was -25.

P1010069-1.jpg
 
This is why they have SO many crayons in a box :laugh:
Everyone has different tastes and needs...There is a ton of info here but it boils down to what is best for your hunting needs!
I don't think I would hunt with out a dog for any small game again, just like watching them work too much I guess:)
 
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