What produces recoil? Velocity or payload?

JPH

JPH

Active member
Wondering what produces the recoil from a given shell, velocity or weight of payload? Or a combo of both?
 
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I'm not a ballistics engineeer but I will say that shotgun is probably the lightest 12 gauge on the market and less weight tends to add recoil. Its a nice shotgun to carry around but you might not find a good shell that does what you want it to in terms of recoil solely because of the shotgun.
 
Felt recoil is (Sw x Mv + 4,700 x Pw)2 / (64.348 x Gw)

(The 2 after the first part of the equation is exponent 2... x2)

Sw- shot weight
Mv- muzzle velocity
Pw- powder weight
Gw- gun weight
All numbers in pounds and fps.

Imput a few different scenarios changing shot weight and velocity and make up your own mind
 
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KEO, how can I get powder weights if it says max dram, or 3 3/4 drams. How do you convert that to pounds?
Thanks
 
KEOutdoors said:
Just use 30grains, which would be 0.00428 pounds. It doesn't matter much in the equation.
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And a wad should also be added. Maybe 50 gr.

Basically, both payload & velocity are of nearly equal importance (although not quite exactly equal). Meaning a 20% increase (or decrease) in one has essentially the same effect as a 20% increase (or decrease) in the other.
 
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A5 Sweet 16 said:
And a wad should also be added. Maybe 50 gr.

Basically, both payload & velocity are of nearly equal importance (although not quite exactly equal). Meaning a 20% increase (or decrease) in one has essentially the same effect as a 20% increase (or decrease) in the other.
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Yes wad is included in the payload weight, its included in your listed weight on factory ammo so you dont need to add extra. 1 1/4 on the box means 1 1/4 of shot and wad weight combined
 
KEOutdoors said:
Yes wad is included in the payload weight, its included in your listed weight on factory ammo so you dont need to add extra. 1 1/4 on the box means 1 1/4 of shot and wad weight combined
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Say what? Where are you getting that info? I've never heard that before. When I've measured payloads of factory shells, they've always been pretty dang close, & that's never included wads, buffer, fillers, or anything but shot. Boss is particularly accurate. Hevi is particularly NOT accurate.
 
A5 Sweet 16 said:
Say what? Where are you getting that info? I've never heard that before. When I've measured payloads of factory shells, they've always been pretty dang close, & that's never included wads, buffer, fillers, or anything but shot. Boss is particularly accurate. Hevi is particularly NOT accurate.
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Its common practice... For everyone.

Heres a 1 1/2 load.
 

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That's your backup? A picture of stuff that weighs 1.5 ounces? With exception of Hevi, most, if not all, shot charges I've weighed have matched the claim on the box. All reloading & black powder data refers to shot weight only. Not shot plus wad, spacers, etc. I have no proof you're wrong, but I'm not buying what you're selling. I guess I'll have to cut open a bunch of shells & satisfy my curiosity.
 
I haven’t weighed that much. The steel loads were right on. Lead Kent’s and b&ps right on. 11/4 Kent bismuth and 1 1/38 Winchester super pheasants about a wad short.
 
I just weighed 7 factory loads whose weight of the shot alone was VERY close to the weight advertised on the box. I've weighed many others in the past with the same results. Here's tonight's data:

Winchester 1 oz.
Shot = 0.979 oz.
Wad = 0.065 oz.
Total = 1.044 oz.

Winchester 1-1/16 oz. (1.0625)
Shot = 1.082 oz.
Wad = 0.122 oz.
Total = 1.204 oz.

Fiocchi 1-1/8 oz. (1.125)
Shot = 1.115 oz.
Wad = 0.068 oz.
Total = 1.183 oz.

Kent 1 oz.
Shot = 1.004 oz.
Wad = 0.064 oz.
Total = 1.068 oz.

Boss 1 oz.
Shot = 1.009 oz.
Wad = 0.068 oz.
Total = 1.077 oz.

Boss 1-1/8 oz. (1.125)
Shot = 1.173 oz.
Wad/card = 0.085 oz.
Total = 1.258 oz.

Boss 1-1/4 oz. (1.250)
Shot = 1.259 oz.
Wad = 0.088 oz.
Total = 1.347 oz.

Plus 1 piece of dumped mud from my archives (I threw the garbage away)...
HeviBismuth 1-1/8 oz. (1.125)
Shot = 1.065 oz.
Wad/flax seed = 0.128 oz.
Total = 1.193 oz.
Very inconsistent, not round, crap shot.

I'm very certain that the intent of most manufacturers is to give you the weight written on the box in shot only. Maybe there are some anomalies that don't, but an anomaly isn't the norm.
 
A5 Sweet 16 said:
Basically, both payload & velocity are of nearly equal importance (although not quite exactly equal). Meaning a 20% increase (or decrease) in one has essentially the same effect as a 20% increase (or decrease) in the other.
Click to expand...

How is that true when

KE = 1/2 x M x V^2

The kinetic energy that causes recoil varies directly with the mass and with the square of the velocity.
 
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