what do you think of this?

1pheas4

1pheas4

Moderator
Okay, here's a few things I've been thinking about lately to solve a couple issues.:rolleyes: Let me know what you guys think.

Illinois's DNR is going broke. Our efforts to get the DNR funded failed once again. A partial/possible solution; Stop mowing ditches, take the saving and pass it onto the DNR.;)

Ditches left idle will help pheasants and other wildlife and the DNR can get a few $. Not sure if it will be enough to keep them alive, but it's something.

"Pen bird blues". We all know the struggles of getting wild birds established through releasing pen birds. Birds that are bred for 40 to 60 generations in pens do not do well surviving in the wild, let alone reproducing and successfully rearing chicks.

Most of you by now know about the "wild" traits in the Manchurian and Afghan White Wing (Bianchi) lines. In fact, both have been noted as successfully surviving and breeding in the wild when other "dumb down" lines have not.

So, what if I drop Macfarlane game farm a hint about crossing some of their pure Manchurian pheasants with some of their Afghan White Wing pheasants? We know they won't give us pure Manchurian birds. So, they can cross two "wild like" lines found in the afghans and Manchurians. I'm betting they'd be as crazed as pen birds can be.

Macfarlane can market these birds to land owners working to establish a wild population of pheasants on their lands.:)

Okay, I have a few more thoughts but this post is getting way too long. I'll save the rest for another day.:D
 
Didn't Michigan try the Manchurian route once?

The best possibilities, imo, lies far past pheasant specie.
An answer tho is unlikely for Illinois.
 
OldDublin said:
Didn't Michigan try the Manchurian route once?

The best possibilities, imo, lies far past pheasant specie.
An answer tho is unlikely for Illinois.
Click to expand...

You're thinking about the Sishuan (Strauchi) pheasant in Michigan. What I'm talking about is establishing or boost #'s on lands that are void of birds or need a little help with their bird populations.

An example; A friend of mine owns 800 acres in ND with very few birds despite the habitat improvements he's made. He insists on releasing melenistics and so called "Chinese" pheasants that have been captive bred for 40 to 60 generations.

Despite having the habitat needed for survival, they are not taking to his land. In the mean time predators are getting fat on his dime.

A friend of mine raised some Manchurian/cross birds last season. Even in late January, when most pen birds are fairly used to humans walking around in the pens, these bird would go absolutely ballistic in the pen once I came around the corner and I was in their sites. Such birds with wild characteristics will have a better chance of making it to spring for breeding and indeed they do.

So, what I'm suggesting is instead of crossing the Pure Manchurian with age old "Chinese" ring-necks or the Kansas ring-neck, cross them with Afghans instead. In doing so, we're combining two lines of birds that carry with them "wild" traits. Something other pen birds typically lack by mid to late season.

And yes, I would agree that problem for Illinois comes down to habitat.:)
 
I appreciate the idea...but

Mowing is a highway deal, DNR has no influence...and influence is the key here.
Aside from the budget issues, each department in a State Government is like a little fiefdom, where each warlord jealously guards his power.

That, and there's a lot more drivers than hunters, and the drivers want the mowing for visibility.

In a better world, might be feasible, although...I have to think that if funds were freed up from one area of operation, the entire collection of departments would be vying for it.

(sorry for the wet blanket. :( )
 
Kismet said:
In a better world, might be feasible, although...I have to think that if funds were freed up from one area of operation, the entire collection of departments would be vying for it.

(sorry for the wet blanket. :( )
Click to expand...


lol...No worries. It was expected my friend:) In this case, it sounds like my ditch/mowing "solution" was just too simple. As we all know by now most gov't issues are too complicated for a simple solution.:(

Thanks for your input;):cheers:
 
Kismet said:
I appreciate the idea...but

Mowing is a highway deal, DNR has no influence...and influence is the key here.
Aside from the budget issues, each department in a State Government is like a little fiefdom, where each warlord jealously guards his power.

That, and there's a lot more drivers than hunters, and the drivers want the mowing for visibility.

In a better world, might be feasible, although...I have to think that if funds were freed up from one area of operation, the entire collection of departments would be vying for it.

(sorry for the wet blanket. :( )
Click to expand...

Most of the mowing has nothing to do with visibility.
 
I suspect the reason for Mcfarlane putting their manchurian roosters to Chinese hens has a lot to do with egg production. A "chicken" pheasant can lay a lot more eggs (mine used to lay 80+ ea per season) compared to a "wilder" laying maybe 30 eggs. What if dnr's had a program where a guy with adequate pens and habitat could get say 2 wild trapped roosters to put to his own hens? F1 birds would have a better chance than any "yard bird" in the wild.
 
quail hound said:
I suspect the reason for Mcfarlane putting their manchurian roosters to Chinese hens has a lot to do with egg production. A "chicken" pheasant can lay a lot more eggs (mine used to lay 80+ ea per season) compared to a "wilder" laying maybe 30 eggs.
Click to expand...

This is true QH. I'm definitely not suggesting they abandon crossing their "Chinese" lines with their Manchurian for reason you've mentioned.

What I'm suggesting is they cross the Afghan w/the Manchurian to fill a niche market for pheasant restoration and introduction.

I don't know.:confused: I'm not in charge up there so I shouldn't even be discussing this. I was just curious what everyone else thinks about this idea. Seems it could be a solutions to at least some of our stocking issues in certain areas. Maybe:rolleyes::)
 
As a whole Americans have become fanatics about mowing grass. They mow everything they can get at. Road ditches, lawns, same thing exactly, cosmetics.
With the weight and power of snow plows these days whether the ditches are mowed or not makes no difference.
As far as the IL DNR going broke most all States Just raise license fees to compensate. MN has raised all licenses. Most all the revenue is sucked up by other things then conservation.

Nick, good for you at working on solutions. I hope you can give the Bianchi lines a good shot.
The trouble we have mostly with releasing pen raised pheasants is that we're releasing them into areas where the wild birds have disappeared mostly or completely. To have pen raised pheasants make it where wild birds can't is going to be impossible.
You need to evaluate, if there habitat, better look at the predation problem. Just so many critters out there that will kill pheasants, many of the worst are protected and many people letting their dogs and cats run.
Go after the ones that aren't protected. Just controlling Skunks, raccoons, yotes and foxes would give pen raised birds in good cover a chance.
 
mnmthunting said:
I hope you can give the Bianchi lines a good shot.
Click to expand...

We'll see Wayne. Just ideas for now:)

Also, I want to make it clear too everyone, Macfarlne's "bianchi/Afghan White Wings" are nowhere near pure bianchi. But, they're all we've got to work with in this point in time.

There's a few who raise a select amount of pure bianchi but those birds need to stay as they are. That is; Pure bianchi. Besides, there's no why in hell they'd give up their birds for cross breeding. To be honest I wouldn't want to anyway.;):)

I feel a cross of pure Manchurian and Afghan's will make one heck of a pen bird. In case that isn't obvious yet. lol:D
 
I think that would make for a nice bird. I would build a new flight pen and raise a straight run of a couple hundred, without blinders and as natural as possible.
 
mnmthunting said:
With the weight and power of snow plows these days whether the ditches are mowed or not makes no difference.
Click to expand...

I don't think the argument is that the drifts are too big to go through, it is if they have to plow them at all. No grass no drifts to plow is the theory.

I'd rather they not mow the right of ways next to our fields. When they mow it there is nothing left to bale. At least we can get some hay value out of it.
 
I shared the original idea with our local PF chapter leader... His main thought has to do with habitat, not predators and that is really what everyone else is saying. Ditch to ditch farming, the pulling out of millions of acres of CRP - with a majority of that being marginal regarding tillage... But $7 corn and $13 beans makes it awful enticing to put that ground back into production.
Don't have any answers... but I do enjoy the discussion.
 
Steve g said:
I shared the original idea with our local PF chapter leader... His main thought has to do with habitat, not predators and that is really what everyone else is saying. Ditch to ditch farming, the pulling out of millions of acres of CRP - with a majority of that being marginal regarding tillage... But $7 corn and $13 beans makes it awful enticing to put that ground back into production.
Don't have any answers... but I do enjoy the discussion.
Click to expand...

You're correct Steve. "Habitat" is the answer. But what I'm referring to is establishing birds in areas that are too far or fragmented to the point wild birds can't move in.

Also, in my ND example (friends 800 acres), the ND winters and wet springs from these past few years have all but killed off his wild stock.

He's now trying establish a new pheasant population through releasing pen reared birds. Unfortunately he insists on releasing crummy stock that will not take despite 4 or 5 years of stocking. Every spring I have to hear him tell me how he's finding piles of feathers all over his fence lines and trails.:(

What I'm presenting here is a possible solution to such a case by case problem. "Wild" stock equals a higher chance and percentage of pen bird survival and reproduction in the wild.:cheers:
 
1pheas4, I would agree with that proposal 100%. Most people don't realize or simply forget that most large scale commercial ringneck pheasant (P. c. Torquatus) that is identical to a wild birds can easily be over 60 to 70 generations of living in a pen. I know some of these can survive but after years and years easy going well feed pen life the (non wary non alert) dumb gene takes over and lays most of the eggs.

To the average person the whitewing/ringneck cross looks like a regular wild ringneck pheasant. The three links below are white-wing ringneck cross along the Rio Grande river. The ringneck looking roosters will inherit all of the predator wary and alert traits of the pure white-winged pheasant. The pheasant below are the results of a 50 years of a fine combination White-Winged (Bianchi Pheasant) released in the early 1960's and ringneck pheasants released in 1916. Some roosters will inherit a partial ring.

http://www.usefilm.com/image/322068.html

http://tonythomasphotography.com/category/birds/upland-game-birds/pheasants


http://www.pbase.com/image/107000733

Note most of hens will look alike and most of the roosters will inherit a full ring from the Manchurian side and the purple rump from the White-Winged side, as seem in the photos above.

The cross would produce a predator wary wild and alert pheasant. Of course as with all of the pen raised pheasant you will see some initial high mortality, but not as high as the 60 generation in the pen tame pheasants.

The objective is not the "looks" of the wild ringneck pheasant but a wild bird with the good sense to get away from bad predators and live long enough to mate in the spring and summer and reproduce baby pheasants.
 
Last edited:
1pheas4, I would agree with that proposal 100%. Most people don't realize or simply forget that most large scale commercial ringneck pheasant (P. c. Torquatus) that is identical to a wild birds can easily be over 60 to 70 generations of living in a pen. I know some of these can survive but after years and years easy going well feed pen life the (non wary non alert) dumb gene takes over and lays most of the eggs.

To the average person the whitewing/ringneck cross looks like a regular wild ringneck pheasant. The three links below are white-wing ringneck cross along the Rio Grande river. The ringneck looking roosters will inherit all of the predator wary and alert traits of the pure white-winged pheasant. The pheasant below are the results of a 50 years of a fine combination White-Winged (Bianchi Pheasant) released in the early 1960's and ringneck pheasants released in 1916. Some roosters will inherit a partial ring.

http://www.usefilm.com/image/322068.html

http://tonythomasphotography.com/rin...che-march-2010

http://www.pbase.com/image/107000733

Note most of hens will look alike and most of the roosters will inherit a full ring from the Manchurian side and the purple rump, as seem in the photos above

The cross would produce a predator wary wild and alert pheasant. Of course the all pen raised pheasant you will see some initial high mortality, but not as high as the 60 generation in the pen tame pheasants.

The objective is not the "looks" of the wild ringneck pheasant but a wild bird with the good sense to get away from bad predators and live long enough to mate in the spring and summer and reproduce baby pheasants.
 
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