What age to teach pup to walk at heel?

c_d

c_d

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Curious what you think is a good age to work with a young pup to walk at heel? I have a 4mo ESS and as soon as we're out the door, her nose hits the ground. She'll barely comes up for air, unless she's carrying something in her mouth, like a stick. She's a smart little bugger, if I just stop walking while she's pulling, she'll plop her butt down and wait for me. But as soon as I say ok, she's off again. Since we're in an urban area (with no backyard), she gets plenty of walks (3-4 a day).

We have a couple spots where she can run and play, but I'd like to figure out when I could/should starting working her to walk at heel. I'm getting a bit tired (so is my wife) of getting yanked around half the time. I see other dog owners getting dragged down the street with full grown dogs, and I refuse for that to be me. I don't want to discourage her using her nose and working out in front of me obviously. I know she's a pup and wants to explore the world, but any advice on a good age (and/or tricks and techniques) is welcome.
thanks.
 
Several issues you described:

1. tugging at the leash
2. time to teach heel

First of all, I would suggest a good dog training book. R. Wolter is one author. I used "Gun Dog" and "Water Dog" when training my 4 Golden's.

At four month's you can begin training heel. Be consistent and don't allow the dog to vary/stray from the command. They will make mistakes, but consistency is key.

One mistake I made is taking the dog(s) off a lead too early. Keep a lead on the dog at all times!! The dog will get accustomed to how far he can stray, before being checked back. I use "heel" a great deal when hunting in heavy sorghum. I do not want the dog to chase the birds out of range - and they will if they learn that straying 30 yards out is OK. This is one of the most difficult things to teach an aggressive hunting dog...stay in range!


I still use an electric collar to reinforce the command!

Good luck.

Jon
 
Many (most?) people will tell you that you canâ??t really expect a good Springer to heel very well and if you do, youâ??ll make a boot polisher out of it. This may be true if you use the traditional approach (like Wolters) using prong collars, choke chains or heeling sticks.

There is a better way, I can walk my ESS w/out a lead in the gallery at a field trial with absolute confidence that he wonâ??t break and interfere (an immediate disqualification) while birds are flushed, shot and retrieved all around. When itâ??s his turn to go however, heâ??s off like a rocket.

My theory is that high powered dogs â??resentâ?� being hauled around by a lead therefore I utilize basic clicker training to teach the pup where to â??heelâ?� and when heâ??s 70%- 80% reliable at that (with no distractions) I put him through basic collar conditioning to make the distinction very clear. There is a transition period in the yard work where Iâ??ve got a clicker in one hand and a transmitter in the other. I rarely use a lead and the dogs Iâ??ve trained w/ this approach have far better line manners than the ones I trained before using the traditional methods.
 
I'd say the time is now!! There are some great DVDs out there and Everyone has their favorites, mine is George Hickox. He gets right to it and it makes a big difference once you get to the field.
Peter
 
Nimrod said:
Many (most?) people will tell you that you canâ??t really expect a good Springer to heel very well and if you do, youâ??ll make a boot polisher out of it. This may be true if you use the traditional approach (like Wolters) using prong collars, choke chains or heeling sticks.

There is a better way, I can walk my ESS w/out a lead in the gallery at a field trial with absolute confidence that he wonâ??t break and interfere (an immediate disqualification) while birds are flushed, shot and retrieved all around. When itâ??s his turn to go however, heâ??s off like a rocket.

My theory is that high powered dogs â??resentâ?� being hauled around by a lead therefore I utilize basic clicker training to teach the pup where to â??heelâ?� and when heâ??s 70%- 80% reliable at that (with no distractions) I put him through basic collar conditioning to make the distinction very clear. There is a transition period in the yard work where Iâ??ve got a clicker in one hand and a transmitter in the other. I rarely use a lead and the dogs Iâ??ve trained w/ this approach have far better line manners than the ones I trained before using the traditional methods.
Click to expand...
I concur, And now is a fine time to start. If the dog sits when you stop you have one that will be easier allready to train.
 
FCSpringer said:
I concur, And now is a fine time to start. If the dog sits when you stop you have one that will be easier allready to train.
Click to expand...

Great! I wanted to start sooner than later, but wasn't sure if it was too early. She definitely sits when I stop, and waits for me to release her. Where can I find a good clicker? online somewhere I suppose, but do local pet shops carry them?

can you guys expand upon this a bit more? I understand the concept of clickers â?? as in click when the task is completed (right?), but how do you integrate this? I have a few books (walters and urban gun dogs)... I suppose I use a basic approach to teaching heel, then integrate the clicker as she falls into place? Am I understanding this correctly? I would love to be able to walk her at heel while on a hunt with a pointer for example, and have her wait for her turn to hunt. A reliable walk at heel, especially in our neighborhood is essential for safety, especially if walking off leash. thanks
 
Nimrod would be better at that then me, But when you mention steady, that brings me to the retrieve right away, Don't make the pup sit steady yet on retrieves, let him go when you throw. That can cause a poor flush later on. Many people make this mistake.It is fine for feeding and general stuff but not the retrieve. You do that later on after he chases flyers. Then all that will come togeather.
 
You can buy a clicker at most pet stores. Find a treat that the dog loves and can swallow immediately. I use tiny bits of cheese or hotdog. Without giving any commands, simply â??clickâ?� and feed the dog a treat. Repeat this 15-20 times in the first setting. After just a few â??click/treatsâ?� youâ??ll see the dog recognize the connection by perking up at the click. This exercise is called â??chargingâ?� or â??loadingâ?� and usually only needs to be done once.

Now the dog associates the â??clickâ?� w/ something good and there is scientific evidence that the â??clickâ?� actually produces chemicals in the dogs brain that make him feel good.

Many people misunderstand the use of the clicker and think of it as a command. This is wrong. The â??clickâ?� is used to mark behavior that you want to encourage. The primary advantage is the ability to â??clickâ?� at the precise moment without introducing any emotion from your voice.

Now put the lead on the dog and w/out giving a command simply wait until he finds himself in the heel position at that instant â??clickâ?� and reward w/ the treat. When he is out of position, ignore him. He will begin to try to earn the â??clickâ?� by moving into the heel position. You can now name that position by saying â??heelâ?� as you click. Take your time and keep the lead on but donâ??t make it a chore. A few minutes several times each day will have your dog looking forward to these lessons and develops a great attitude for training.

All you are doing w/ the clicker at this point is making the dog feel good when heâ??s in the correct heel position so he will try to stay there. Obviously, this training is most effective when the dog is hungry and not interested in something else so do it in private before feeding.

Once the dog clearly understands the heel command and is doing it most of the time, I go through the collar conditioning process.

The dog should have been wearing his ecollar for several weeks w/out it being turned on. He should look forward to wearing the collar because he associates it w/ the fun of training. This is critical if you want to avoid the collar wise dog.

With the dog on a long line, simply let him explore to the end. With the transmitter set at the lowest setting push the â??nickâ?� or â??momentaryâ?� button while closely observing the dog. You are looking for the slightest sign that he can feel the nick, possibly a twitch of the ear or just a pause in what heâ??s doing. If you get no response, raise the level 1 at a time until you do. Now you have found the correct level for collar conditioning.

Again w/ the dog on the long line let him roam to the end of the line. When heâ??s looking away from you, push the continuous button, then say â??heelâ?� and pull him around so that heâ??s facing you. At this point release the button and pull him in to the heel position and â??click/treatâ?�. Very quickly the dog will make the connection and will try to stay in the heel position. Gradually raise the criteria so that the dog stays w/in a small circle from you while walking. If he strays outside the circle, step backward to increase the distance even more and nick w/ the collar. When he jumps back to the correct place, â??click/treatâ?�.

Eventually you can â??clickâ?� without giving the treat sometimes.

If Iâ??ve explained this properly, you can see why itâ??s so effective. The dog learns that there is a huge difference in outcomes between heeling correctly and not doing so and has a clear understanding of how to control those outcomes. This understanding and ability to control his own world makes him a confident and happy student.

I agree w/ hayduke and recommend George Hickox for a more detailed approach to this method. The Wolters books are hopelessly out of date.

Good luck.
 
Using a clicker and treats...interesting approach, but some of the "out of date" methods work well also. We just get there via a different route. The lead and ecollar are still an important part of the training process. I use the ecollar when I go for walks, and stimulate the dog when he ranges too far or isn't watching me. Wish I would have employed this earlier...but dogs learn fast, especially when there's a bit of stimulation that they don't wish to feel. The dog still needs to respond/respect your voice when there's 50 birds flushing at your feet and he's ready for the chase!!

Jon
 
Thanks for the tips guys. I'll buy a clicker this weekend and load her up. ;)

FCS - she's only steady when we're out on a walk (mainly crossing the street, and at doorways). Not for feeding or chasing balls/toys etc... I appreciate the tip though. I make her sit before we throw the toy though and let her go right after it if that's ok? Another question this brings up though is chasing birds. Since we're in the city, there are plenty of pigeons around. She'll stare and stare at them until we get close and i let her run at 'em and flush them up. I'm a bit worried about this causing potentially poor flush down the road since she's on leash. They're also pretty used to people and other dogs so they only fly a few feet and set back down until we get close again. something to think about? worry about?

Nimrod - thanks for all the info. It definitely makes sense. I'll check out the Hickox videos. Should I bother with the puppy video? or just go for the main volumes?

Curious about timing on ecollar too. Sounds like getting one soon is what you're recommending? If I get one in the coming weeks, and let her wear it for a few weeks, she'll be about 5.5-6months before we get into stimulation... good age to get started? bit too soon? How and when should she have it on? All times around the house? whenever we step outdoors? hmm... guessing hte Hickox vids will help make more sense of this.

JonnyB - I've read Wolters 'gun dog' and it seems pretty decent overall (though geared to a pointer). I've read some recent contradictory articles on his timing notes, but personally, the one big 'out of date' thing that caught me was in regards to giving the dog a good thrashing. haha. If I've learned anything over the last few months, there isn't just ONE way to train a dog. 'Urban Gun Dogs' has been really helpful, but missing just a couple points I'm looking for. Thanks everyone for all the responses!
 
Am sure there are lots of new books on the market that teach dog training - Wolter was one that I used.

Every dog is different as is the hunting: duck, quail, pheasant et al, I am a SD pheasant hunter, some CRP but mainly sorghum and corn. Every dog loves to give chase to a running rooster, so the training emphasis will vary.

Heeling is a part of the overall training for a dog. Mine is a bit headstrong and only will stay close if I shock him a few times. He's 8 and still resists and I've used treats and the collar.

I would caution regarding his chase on pigeons. Once he gets the idea that it's ok to give chase, ignoring where you are, it's hard to break. Again, it depends on the type of hunting. SD pheasants will rise way ahead of you and spoil a close shot if the dog is allowed to give chase.

jon
 
I put the ecollar on just before we go out to train/play. The pup starts to associate it w/ fun and soon stretches his neck out to get it on. The biggest mistake is to only put it on when you're going to use it. A "collar-wise" dog is much worse than a dog who's never had one on.

I read Wolters books 20 yrs ago and I too thought he was "the man". But I've since learned much more about training (and Wolters) and would rank his approach very near the bottom of the barrel. His guidance regarding a time schedule is horrible advice! Every dog is different and by trying to keep up w/ a schedule you will either be moving too fast or too slow. Learn to read your dog and progress accordingly.
 
jonnyB said:
Am sure there are lots of new books on the market that teach dog training - Wolter was one that I used.

Every dog is different as is the hunting: duck, quail, pheasant et al, I am a SD pheasant hunter, some CRP but mainly sorghum and corn. Every dog loves to give chase to a running rooster, so the training emphasis will vary.

Heeling is a part of the overall training for a dog. Mine is a bit headstrong and only will stay close if I shock him a few times. He's 8 and still resists and I've used treats and the collar.

I would caution regarding his chase on pigeons. Once he gets the idea that it's ok to give chase, ignoring where you are, it's hard to break. Again, it depends on the type of hunting. SD pheasants will rise way ahead of you and spoil a close shot if the dog is allowed to give chase.

jon
Click to expand...

I agree completely about every dog being different. I'm hoping to fill some holes in her training from the books I have. Every bit counts (at least to me) so I can taper training to fit her.

Out here locally we hunt preserve pheasants, but I'm hoping to get her on some wild quail and eventually a few ducks too. My father in law (and mother in law) is from SD, and I had an opportunity to hunt out there a couple years ago. I was hoping to get back this year, but just wasn't able to. Now when I make the trip back, I'll be able to bring my dog. I know what you mean about those wild SD birds... i can't wait to get back there!

Just to clarify, I don't let her chase em on the loose. I have her on lead and I'll let her run them up while I'm right behind her jogging to keep up. She's not charging too hard, but jogging up a bit. They pop up before she gets too close, then she just stands and watches them. I thnk she's more curious about them than anything. THis morning she sniffed the area intensely where they had all been. And a few blocks away when she found a wing with some bones attached she just went nuts sniffing and picking it up in her mouth!
 
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