West vs Smith method?

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BradyBuck

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In preparation for my first versatile dog I have been looking into different training methods/programs. Any insight into these two approaches would be appreciated!
 
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birddude said:
Do you mean Bob west? If so, He was one of the best trainers of dogs and men that I knew of.
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From Google:


Key Differences and Similarities
  • Approach to Birds: The West/Gibbons method (sometimes called "The Natural Way") often allows the dog to learn how to handle birds with minimal interference, building confidence. The Smith Method, as traditionally used, might focus more on immediate, controlled stopping (steadiness).
  • Methodology: The West method emphasizes using a gentle touch and sometimes a pinch-collar to teach the initial "whoa" or stop command. The Smith Method is well-known for its, "Silent Command" system and the use of the e-collar for precise, low-level, or long-distance communication.
  • Philosophy: Both schools of thought aim to create a confident hunting partner, but the West method is often described as more of a "less is more" approach, while the Smith method has a more structured,, "command" based, but still, "intelligent" approach, sometimes using a, "check-cord" to guide the dog, which then, "leads to", "independent hunting," according to proponents.
Key Takeaways
  • The West/Gibbons method is often associated with a, "natural," "less-interference" style.
  • The Smith Method is often associated with, "early-introduction-to-birds" and "using-the-e-collar-as-a-command-tool".
  • Both methods, in their modern forms, are often blended, and trainers frequently take, "what works" from, "both styles".
 
I have attended 3 Rick smith seminars, the silent command and also spent time with a Bob west desciple for a few days . IMO both will get you there. Unfortunately the need for nuances can be hard to execute in a perfectly timed reaction. One bit of advice would be to attend a silent command foundational seminar from Rick or Ronnie Smith, his cousin ,over a weekend. I learned new techniques every time I attended.
Very well worth the time and expense I think.
 
Having trained my EPs using both training methods, I would recommend using the silent command (Smith method). Reasons why:

Gibbons/West Method is effective for some, Dave Walker proved that with his success running all age Brittany’s. However, I do believe it better serves your softer dogs. I also believe it confuses the dog, the same e collar command on the neck for recall is the same for whoa. My male EP ended up flagging his birds because I put too much collar pressure on him. E collar pressure on the neck did not phase no matter what level it was on. This method also keeps the dog on a check cord a long time through the breaking process. I do not recommend for a beginner, to many areas to screw up.

The silent command has been much easier and I’ve had better success with. I believe the whoa post and e collar on the belly is a must in my program. I also think the dog ends up more polished especially when W and S broke for trials. My dogs have better style and intensity using this system. I do deviate here and there to make it my own using some George Hicock theory but the bones are silent command.

Long story short, use what is easiest for you to comprehend and stick with it. Don’t let people sway you one way or another especially when 2-4 weeks int the training. Good luck, be glad to help if I can!
 

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Elhew Top Gun said:
Having trained my EPs using both training methods, I would recommend using the silent command (Smith method). Reasons why:

Gibbons/West Method is effective for some, Dave Walker proved that with his success running all age Brittany’s. However, I do believe it better serves your softer dogs. I also believe it confuses the dog, the same e collar command on the neck for recall is the same for whoa. My male EP ended up flagging his birds because I put too much collar pressure on him. E collar pressure on the neck did not phase no matter what level it was on. This method also keeps the dog on a check cord a long time through the breaking process. I do not recommend for a beginner, to many areas to screw up.

The silent command has been much easier and I’ve had better success with. I believe the whoa post and e collar on the belly is a must in my program. I also think the dog ends up more polished especially when W and S broke for trials. My dogs have better style and intensity using this system. I do deviate here and there to make it my own using some George Hicock theory but the bones are silent command.

Long story short, use what is easiest for you to comprehend and stick with it. Don’t let people sway you one way or another especially when 2-4 weeks int the training. Good luck, be glad to help if I can!
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Thanks so much!

Ordering all the silent command DVDs/book and hopefully have the opportunity to attend a seminar. I assume I’ll take some things away from other folks but after doing more research and hearing from some other knowledgeable people I plan to base my training around the Silent Command/Smith program.
 
BradyBuck said:
Thanks so much!

Ordering all the silent command DVDs/book and hopefully have the opportunity to attend a seminar. I assume I’ll take some things away from other folks but after doing more research and hearing from some other knowledgeable people I plan to base my training around the Silent Command/Smith program.
Click to expand...
Check out George too. I like his stuff as well.
 
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