Trouble with Whoa teaching

A

akersrob

New member
hello guys,

looking for advice on the teaching the whoa command to a 4 year GWP female. She is a wondeful dog, but somehow I just cannot get the Whoa command down. I have gotten a little better response using a whoa post ( which I did for like 4 days). Then I tried to go to the 2 collar method, (one on neck, and on one on hind quarters).

I started out for about a week, using the vibrate mode, Cut it on, and the then when she stops cut it off. That appeared to be working, but she would not ever stop quickly. She would eventually stop. So I decided yesterday to up the game, and then started with continuous mode (low 1) like one. She acted like she could not even feel it, then moved to level 2 with the same reaction, then went to 3 ( got a yelp). Now all she does is stand there. When I go out in the yard, we play fetch, but when I try to work with her, most of the time she just wants to come close and just stand there. I have to really work with her to get her to move at all. She will come to me, stop, and I have to encourage her to keep moving. I guess she has figured out it safe to do nothing.

So this morning I took her out, and left the collars off. Just when through the yard tossing the ball and I would randomly call Whoa, and she would slowly come to a stop. After a few cycles of this she started doing what she did yesterday, she stayed close and kept stopping and looking back like ok, I am waiting.

So I hope I didnlt just screw her up. Also another nugget, I have been trying to be consistent and taking her out 3 times a day for 10 to 15 minutes to specifically work on on this, and then I randomly throughout the day call whoa when she is walking through the house. In the house same response, she will slowly come to a stop.

Here is the end game, when I take her on the preseve, she will point, but sometimes the excitement she has will flush the bird before I can get close enough or into position for a shot. Also as soon as the flush happens, she is off to the chase, and I am good to make sure the bird is high enough before I shoot, but I would prefer to teach her to wait, mark the bird, and then release when its safe. I will be hunting this fall with Friends, and eventually want to teach her to back other dogs. I really dont want my dog screwing up the hunt.

So anyway, any experiences or advice would be wonderful.
thanks,
Rob
 
I had good luck using a half hitch around the belly with a check cord. They'll collapse the first several times but they'll pick up on it. My experience anyway.
 
She was probably feeling the lower stims before but just tolerating it. I've had stubborn dogs that would tolerate pressure just to be stubborn until I broke their "pressure" threshold, but once they were convinced that it wasn't worth the resistance training went quickly. Maybe she's not being stubborn, I'm not there but you are. If that is the case though I bet you get a better reaction from the lower reactions now. Another thing I'd recommend is altering the "pressure" type and level, that eliminates the dog thinking about how quickly to obey, mostly you want to avoid a routine progression of vibrate, then low stim then higher. Teach with vibrate or very low(which it sounds like you have) when they know the command mix it up so the dog does the Maverick thing "Don't think, just do"

If you want her steady to shot you have to let the bumped birds fly away. Shooting a bumped bird is rewarding the mis-behavior. Homing pigeons are awesome for training that, you can keep using them and they just fly home, I know that many can't keep homers but its worth the investment if you can. If you have good connections with a kennel or a trainer you may be able to "rent" some.
 
GladHunter said:
She was probably feeling the lower stims before but just tolerating it. I've had stubborn dogs that would tolerate pressure just to be stubborn until I broke their "pressure" threshold, but once they were convinced that it wasn't worth the resistance training went quickly. Maybe she's not being stubborn, I'm not there but you are. If that is the case though I bet you get a better reaction from the lower reactions now. Another thing I'd recommend is altering the "pressure" type and level, that eliminates the dog thinking about how quickly to obey, mostly you want to avoid a routine progression of vibrate, then low stim then higher. Teach with vibrate or very low(which it sounds like you have) when they know the command mix it up so the dog does the Maverick thing "Don't think, just do"

If you want her steady to shot you have to let the bumped birds fly away. Shooting a bumped bird is rewarding the mis-behavior. Homing pigeons are awesome for training that, you can keep using them and they just fly home, I know that many can't keep homers but its worth the investment if you can. If you have good connections with a kennel or a trainer you may be able to "rent" some.
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thank you so much for the reply. I think I will just go slower. I hopwe she get out of the fear of moving. I try to mix it up with playing fetch, a couple of times, then ask her to whoa and hold for a time or two. I try to keep them short.

I had a good friend give me a pair of homing pidgeons. they just had their first chicks. Plan was to train with the chicks as I am told that if I release the breeding pair they will fly to their original home.
 
akersrob said:
I am told that if I release the breeding pair they will fly to their original home.
Click to expand...
That is correct once pigeons have established "home" (usually by breeding) they will do all they can to fly back there. Since yours have chicks you could probably use them for training but I would definitely wait until the chick are self sufficient. Either way you will want to make sure your training birds know how to get back into the coop, and you will want to give them a few training sessions to get their bearings of what home looks like from outside the loft.
 
I had the best luck with a 30 foot check cord with a half hitch around the abdomen. I would walk behind my dog and when I wanted her to whoa, I would lightly tug on the check cord. If she moved, I picked her up and put her back where I wanted her. Make sure you release her as well using whatever command you are using (tapping on the head, saying OK with a tap, etc.) I personally think the half hitch should be used before using two e-collars or an e-collar on the belly. She has to understand what it is you are asking her to do. Praise the hell out of her when she gets it right. I also used a clicker along with this but if she's never been conditioned with a clicker, she will have no idea what it means unless you incorporate the clicker with all her training.
 
akersrob said:
hello guys,

looking for advice on the teaching the whoa command to a 4 year GWP female. She is a wondeful dog, but somehow I just cannot get the Whoa command down. I have gotten a little better response using a whoa post ( which I did for like 4 days). Then I tried to go to the 2 collar method, (one on neck, and on one on hind quarters).

I started out for about a week, using the vibrate mode, Cut it on, and the then when she stops cut it off. That appeared to be working, but she would not ever stop quickly. She would eventually stop. So I decided yesterday to up the game, and then started with continuous mode (low 1) like one. She acted like she could not even feel it, then moved to level 2 with the same reaction, then went to 3 ( got a yelp). Now all she does is stand there. When I go out in the yard, we play fetch, but when I try to work with her, most of the time she just wants to come close and just stand there. I have to really work with her to get her to move at all. She will come to me, stop, and I have to encourage her to keep moving. I guess she has figured out it safe to do nothing.

So this morning I took her out, and left the collars off. Just when through the yard tossing the ball and I would randomly call Whoa, and she would slowly come to a stop. After a few cycles of this she started doing what she did yesterday, she stayed close and kept stopping and looking back like ok, I am waiting.

So I hope I didnlt just screw her up. Also another nugget, I have been trying to be consistent and taking her out 3 times a day for 10 to 15 minutes to specifically work on on this, and then I randomly throughout the day call whoa when she is walking through the house. In the house same response, she will slowly come to a stop.

Here is the end game, when I take her on the preseve, she will point, but sometimes the excitement she has will flush the bird before I can get close enough or into position for a shot. Also as soon as the flush happens, she is off to the chase, and I am good to make sure the bird is high enough before I shoot, but I would prefer to teach her to wait, mark the bird, and then release when its safe. I will be hunting this fall with Friends, and eventually want to teach her to back other dogs. I really dont want my dog screwing up the hunt.

So anyway, any experiences or advice would be wonderful.
thanks,
Rob
Click to expand...
Go slow man… that’s exactly what she’s doing, can’t mess up if I do t move. 2-3 good reps is better than 15 average. Also try changing training locations from time to time, dogs remember where stressful situations happen. My last force fetch was started in garage and I was sensing above normal stress after several sessions, a simple move outside and few steps backwards got us on track.
 
I teach whoa on walks as well as afield. On walks I say whoa and stop walking. Afield I use a check lead and as the dog nearly runs out its full length I will say whoa. i also teach whoa to a one note, short lip whistle. i do this while walking the dog as well. using shock collars is, to me, for reinforcement of what the dog already knows through training. Another way to get your dog to whoa is through the vibration mode of an e-collar. When walking the dog, vibrate and say whoa simultaneously and stop. Keep doing this and the dog should whoa with just a vibration. You can use vibration afield for whoaing without making a sound. The shocking a dog or tethering a dog in a manner that knocks it down is unnecessary if not harmful.

Dogs are much easier to train if they are bonded to you. My dog lives with me in the house and once afield wants to please me no end.
 
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My current youngest Brittany learned to whoa on walks. Learned it well after just a week (walking almost daily). Sometimes I have 3 Britts on the walk ... say whoa ... they all still freeze. My 15-year-old sometimes looks at me "saying" what are we doing ?

They hold whoa until I release them. I still do it at least a few times a week, should do it once or twice a walk.

I don't rush exposure and too much exposure to live birds.

I don't hunt inexperienced bird dogs with other dogs and in group settings. One dog with me and maybe one other hunter.

All my Britts live inside with us. I have not faced an issue where I thought I need a pro to solve this. I have not used an e-collar on my dogs and would only consider one to break one if they became deer obsessed ...

Pro trainers get 15 - 20 minutes with each dog twice a day if they are training 8 - 10 dogs ? I get the e-collar and tether tricks are needed to try speed up the process.

I am on Brittany number seven. The only one that had issues was my first dog and he spent a summer with a trainer. Go figure.
 
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