Training program for Goldens?

I

imenendez

New member
Hey Yall, for those who have trained golden retrievers for hunting specifically upland and water fowl what training program did you use? Did you train waterfowl or upland first?

I have not done any duck hunting but I am definitely going to start dabbling in it, but I know I will for be doing upland mostly, specifically pheasants, as my wife and I both enjoy it!

My goal would be able to have a well trained dog, whether that’s if I decide to duck hunt, going out in the field for pheasant, or just behaved in the house such as place training.

I have looked at stuff from Hillman on YouTube and like him as it will really hone the retrieving aspect, but I noticed it doesn’t include upland stuff. I still want a good retriever who can find birds, but I’m not interested in any hunt test and stuff.

Thanks!
Ian
 
I’d recommend getting them out on planted birds early and often. Chukar have worked the best for me over the years. Starting at 3ish months old. The other important thing is what Julie Bates calls “the walk”. Getting the pup out with you in the field (just the two of you) and walking around together, daily. Julie’s written a book called training the pointing Labrador retriever.
 
Obedience than once they have the adult teeth a forced fetch. Use what birds you can get to start them on. I use ducks and pigeons because they are in my freezer. I do marks as in duck hunting although I mostly upland hunt. They learn to use their nose with marks.
 
There are several different ways to do it... the main thing is consistency, and only one program. Do not mix and match. When retrieving, less is more while training. I throw a few bumpers every day a couple times a day. Takes very little time. Seriously like 2 or 3 bumpers a session. Maybe 5 in a row at max. Always lots of praise when pup brings back bumper. I messed up and would only praise my last pup (had not trained one in 15 years) when she would bring the bumper back to and sit at my side. Turns out she will not retrieve bumpers at all. Only lost one bird this season so she is good in the field, but not worth a darn in the yard. The next dog I trained, I praised lots after each retrieve and then introduced the sit and hold at my side and not dropping the bird till commanded (force fetch). I did not have to properly "force fetch" that dog but he will not drop a bird and will not hold a bumper. In my mind, it does not bother me as I am not after ribbons and awards. I am after enjoyment 365 days a year from my dog. It just gets to be really enjoyable for about 90-100 days in the fall each year. As far as upland specific hunting there is no better training for upland hunting, than going upland hunting. I would have told you 2 years ago my golden was a pet that I took hunting, Last season it was Thanksgiving weekend a light went off and she started to look like a hunting dog I had for a pet. Final weekend of season last year she pointed 2 birds. This year she has pointed double digit birds for me and flushed 116 birds including hens. Retrieving 43 out of 44 chances.

I have tried to do everything to the T, in a couple different books/ dvds. I will say they all are good and all hold merit, but the number 1 thing I have found is time spent in the field and solid obedience training. The rest will come natural to the dog. Once the dog gets a good whiff of bird, and mouth full of feathers its natural instincts will kick in! My golden is good, the only weakness she has in my eyes is she gets a little locked in on one scent. I know I have walked by birds because she is the trail of a runner and won't leave it. If she would quarter better we would have more success... But she is obedient and I can stop her from running out of range. That is 100% obedience and must be solid.

For waterfowl, a dog that is steady is great. A dog that is quiet is great, a dog that is steady and quiet is a unicorn! Any dog that is obedient and upland hunts will fetch ducks. I have never seen a dog that was what I would consider great at both... But know of many, many, many dogs that are more than biddable at both. It is all about your expectations and what will make you happy. I am very pleased when I don't have to get out of the blind to pick up a bird. There are a bunch of guys that are not happy unless the dog goes straight to the bird, straight back to them, stop 3 times to pose for a picture to post on social media, and will hold a 12 pound goose at heel till next Thurday. I have hunted with lots of dogs... my favorite one would jump from the boat as soon as the ducks hit the water, steal your sandwich on the way out, and if you walked out of the house with a gun in your hand he would lay across the driveway and not let you leave unless you loaded him up or ran him over. He was obedient, and was hunted over a lot.
 
GoldenHunter said:
There are several different ways to do it... the main thing is consistency, and only one program. Do not mix and match. When retrieving, less is more while training. I throw a few bumpers every day a couple times a day. Takes very little time. Seriously like 2 or 3 bumpers a session. Maybe 5 in a row at max. Always lots of praise when pup brings back bumper. I messed up and would only praise my last pup (had not trained one in 15 years) when she would bring the bumper back to and sit at my side. Turns out she will not retrieve bumpers at all. Only lost one bird this season so she is good in the field, but not worth a darn in the yard. The next dog I trained, I praised lots after each retrieve and then introduced the sit and hold at my side and not dropping the bird till commanded (force fetch). I did not have to properly "force fetch" that dog but he will not drop a bird and will not hold a bumper. In my mind, it does not bother me as I am not after ribbons and awards. I am after enjoyment 365 days a year from my dog. It just gets to be really enjoyable for about 90-100 days in the fall each year. As far as upland specific hunting there is no better training for upland hunting, than going upland hunting. I would have told you 2 years ago my golden was a pet that I took hunting, Last season it was Thanksgiving weekend a light went off and she started to look like a hunting dog I had for a pet. Final weekend of season last year she pointed 2 birds. This year she has pointed double digit birds for me and flushed 116 birds including hens. Retrieving 43 out of 44 chances.

I have tried to do everything to the T, in a couple different books/ dvds. I will say they all are good and all hold merit, but the number 1 thing I have found is time spent in the field and solid obedience training. The rest will come natural to the dog. Once the dog gets a good whiff of bird, and mouth full of feathers its natural instincts will kick in! My golden is good, the only weakness she has in my eyes is she gets a little locked in on one scent. I know I have walked by birds because she is the trail of a runner and won't leave it. If she would quarter better we would have more success... But she is obedient and I can stop her from running out of range. That is 100% obedience and must be solid.

For waterfowl, a dog that is steady is great. A dog that is quiet is great, a dog that is steady and quiet is a unicorn! Any dog that is obedient and upland hunts will fetch ducks. I have never seen a dog that was what I would consider great at both... But know of many, many, many dogs that are more than biddable at both. It is all about your expectations and what will make you happy. I am very pleased when I don't have to get out of the blind to pick up a bird. There are a bunch of guys that are not happy unless the dog goes straight to the bird, straight back to them, stop 3 times to pose for a picture to post on social media, and will hold a 12 pound goose at heel till next Thurday. I have hunted with lots of dogs... my favorite one would jump from the boat as soon as the ducks hit the water, steal your sandwich on the way out, and if you walked out of the house with a gun in your hand he would lay across the driveway and not let you leave unless you loaded him up or ran him over. He was obedient, and was hunted over a lot.
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Haha love that about the sandwich stealing dog haha! Yeah I’m not after an award winning dog, just a dog that can be a great hunting buddy. Time in the field won’t be a problem, I go at least once a week. I like how you went about force fetching, I really don’t like the idea of ear pinching ect. It reminds me of Bill Hillman, which I like his force fetching program because it’s just reassuring using the e collar the fetch.

So did you personally use a certain training program or kind of mixed things in here and there from knowing what needed to be trained?

I know place training is something I want to train as my wife doesn’t want him wandering through the house so I know that would help with steadiness.
 
The first thing you need to do is crate training. You don't have to have the dog retrieving every day. Sometimes that creates more problems. A few times a week. Bird exposure is important but you don't have to do it often. Generally once a week is plenty until you have laid down the foundation of obedience and collar conditioning. Hillman is a great program to follow. Force fetch is more than teaching a dog to hold and deliver to hand. It is an extention of obedience and lays the foundation for all advanced training. As far as quartering, It takes 3 people. You handle the dog and have 2 helpers 20 yds on each side and in front of you 5 yds. Have both helpers with a handful of dummies. Have one helper yelling hey hey hey and toss a bumper 5 yds in front when they have the dogs attention. After the delivery have the other helper do the same thing. And repeat. After a few session you can replace hey hey with a training pistol. Then replace bumpers with birds. After a couple of weeks you will have a dog quartering to the front and 20 yds either side. Then you can go to planted birds and no helpers.
 
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westksbowhunter said:
The first thing you need to do is crate training. You don't have to have the dog retrieving every day. Sometimes that creates more problems. A few times a week. Bird exposure is important but you don't have to do it often. Generally once a week is plenty until you have laid down the foundation of obedience and collar conditioning. Hillman is a great program to follow. Force fetch is more than teaching a dog to hold and deliver to hand. It is an extention of obedience and lays the foundation for all advanced training. As far as quartering, It takes 3 people. You handle the dog and have 2 helpers 20 yds on each side and in front of you 5 yds. Have both helpers with a handful of dummies. Have one helper yelling hey hey hey and toss a bumper 5 yds in front when they have the dogs attention. After the delivery have the other helper do the same thing. And repeat. After a few session you can replace hey hey with a training pistol. Then replace bumpers with birds. After a couple of weeks you will have a dog quartering to the front and 20 yds either side. Then you can go to planted birds and no helpers
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That quartering training seems pretty straightforward. The more I’m researching the more I’m realizing with upland as long as you teach them to quarter and stay close the rest they learn in the field. I have read about Hickoxs program. Do you know much about that?
 
imenendez said:
That quartering training seems pretty straightforward. The more I’m researching the more I’m realizing with upland as long as you teach them to quarter and stay close the rest they learn in the field. I have read about Hickoxs program. Do you know much about that?
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No they don't learn in the field. They take what you have taught them and transition it to the field. Training a dog is no different than teaching or raising kids. Which is why we see unruly dogs in the field and unruly kids in the classroom. I am familiar with Hickoks but not something I use. I would stick with Lardy or Hillman but the Fowl Dawgs video is good to watch. Be sure and get one of these and use the short acorn crimps and do it right. https://www.lcsupply.com/products/lcs-22-caliber-starter-pistol#overview
 
For upland, I think the most important thing is a daily solo puppy walk in a wild area.
Solo, just you and pup...no other dogs or people.
Pup learns to explore, becomes bolder, and most importantly pays attention to where you are at all times.
Pup becomes bonded to you in the field. An occasional short toss of a bumper and run away as a game.
Other than that, STAY SILENT! and let pup explore. If you want pup to come to you,SILENTLY walk in the opposite direction.

Use an aquarium thermometer for water work, the water ideally should be in the 70s F.
Start in shallow lunging water and gradually transition to swimming water.
golden_pup.jpg
 
westksbowhunter said:
No they don't learn in the field. They take what you have taught them and transition it to the field. Training a dog is no different than teaching or raising kids. Which is why we see unruly dogs in the field and unruly kids in the classroom. I am familiar with Hickoks but not something I use. I would stick with Lardy or Hillman but the Fowl Dawgs video is good to watch. Be sure and get one of these and use the short acorn crimps and do it right. https://www.lcsupply.com/products/lcs-22-caliber-starter-pistol#overview
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I don't like Fowl Dawgs because Rick is constantly yelling and repeating his commands.
For upland hunting, silence is golden
 
When I started to raise Goldens we were very few people who hunted with them. I got lots of raised eyebrows and rolled eyes when I said I hunted with Golden's. Now when I go to my trainer or other professional training trucks I see a lot more Golden's on those trucks and they are good dogs! I struggle with this scenario because I had the unique somewhat rare hunting Golden that I sold. But now they are more popular and people are seeing them as legitimate hunting dogs. I love the breed so I will always have them and breed them. As far as training they are just like every other dog. Some are hard charging and need a firmer hand, some are softer and will respond better to other forms of training. It all depends on the dog more than the program. Good trainers train the dog and move them along at the dogs pace.
 
goldenboy said:
When I started to raise Goldens we were very few people who hunted with them. I got lots of raised eyebrows and rolled eyes when I said I hunted with Golden's. Now when I go to my trainer or other professional trainng trucks I see a lot more Golden's on those trucks and they are good dogs! I struggle with this scenario because I had the unique somewhat rare hunting Golden that I sold. But now they are more popular and people are seeing them as legitimate hunting dogs. I love the breed so I will always have them and breed them. As far as training they are just like every other dog. Some are hard charging and need a firmer hand, some are softer and will respond better to other forms of training. It all depends on the dog more than the program. Good trainers train the dog and move them along at the dogs pace.
Click to expand...
Had a friend that hunted goldens and always had a 3 dog rotation. He really loved them and loved pheasant hunting. He passed away about 10 years ago. Hard to replace that generation of hunters and the values they carried with them.
 
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