Training for NSTRA Field Trials

Dakotazeb

Dakotazeb

Well-known member
Being "steady to wing & shot" is not required in NSTRA trials. The dog is required to be steady once on point until the handler moves and/or flushes the bird. At the two trials I have participated in I don't think I saw one dog steady to wing & shot. And in talking with the judges they told me it's not required. But the breeder/trainer I got my dog from, and who is big in NSTRA, insists that the dog be steady to wing & shot. So I'm confused. Does anyone have any information they can share on this issue?
 
George, I have read the Rules and I have seen several events here in Spokane. Where they hold them here is just a few miles from my home. I have never seen a dog be held steady to wing and shot in a NSTRA Event. If the dog does, it is only because the owner runs AKC events also. I myself do not believe in Steady to W&S. I prefer my dog there when the bird hits the ground if possible. Also when you are on a clock/time limit. It is in your advantage to have the dog break with the flush............Bob
 
the trials i run your dog is only required to hold point until you flush the bird or for three second which ever occurs first in my opinion it is not natural nore would you want to step in front of the dog so why have them broke to wing and shot i train my dogs to hold point until i get beside them or until given the command to flush
 
Gove County Britts said:
the trials i run your dog is only required to hold point until you flush the bird or for three second which ever occurs first in my opinion it is not natural nore would you want to step in front of the dog so why have them broke to wing and shot i train my dogs to hold point until i get beside them or until given the command to flush
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You obviously are not familiar with NSTRA and it's requirements. In order to receive the maximum "Find" points once the dog goes on point it must remain steady with no movement until the handler flushes the bird. If the dog moves in and flushes the bird you get no points and if it happens twice during a brace you will be DQ'd. But once the handler moves the bird or the bird flushes the dog can give chase. Thus being stead to wing & shot is not required. Yet some trainers of NSTRA dogs want the dog steady to wing & shot. I was just asking what others with NSTRA experience thought of this issue.
 
There is a big advantage in this type of event to having your dog break at the flush & chase and that is because you are hunting pen raised birds. Often times even if you miss completely, the bird will still land in the field. If your dog is chasing he'll possibly make the retrieve thus covering up your miss.
 
Dakota i am very familiar with NASTRA and there rules and regulations and likes and dislikes hence the reason i dont run them anymore
 
As I read this thread, the opinions DZ is looking for, are being evaded. I have been a dog owner for since 1955, I have never held with the idea/requirement that a dog be Steady to Wing and Shot. I have heard all the arguments; like what if 2 birds flush etc.. But I personally while hunting, have had more birds saved because of the release at the flush. Than I have lost and seen lost being steady. I therefore feel that NSTRA is more of a true hunt test with its' present rules, than some of the others..........Bob
 
Gove County Britts said:
Dakota i am very familiar with NASTRA and there rules and regulations and likes and dislikes hence the reason i dont run them anymore
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Like everything else, everyone has their own likes and dislikes. But I have found the NSTRA trials to be fun and, like Bob said, more of a true hunt test than most of the other trials.

My original question here has nothing to do with the rules of NSTRA. I just wanted to know what people thought of having a dog steady to wing & shot in NSTRA.
 
If I was running a pointing breed that didnâ??t have a strong tendency to mark & retrieve in a NSTRA event, Iâ??d let it chase for the reason I mentioned in my previous post. However, for retrievers, spaniels and most versatile breeds, I much prefer a steady dog.

I know that many (most?) hunters argue that a chasing dog will recover more wounded birds than a steady on but there is just as much evidence that a steady dog will do better because he can more accurately mark the fall. Both arguments are â??theoreticalâ?� though because thereâ??s no way to prove that your dog that broke at the flush wouldnâ??t have done just as well if heâ??d been steady and vice-versa.

What is not disputable however is that there will be times, particularly on quail, when you will not be able to take a shot because your chasing dog is in the way. Granted most pheasants donâ??t fly low so thatâ??s not much of an issue but when pheasant hunting, you will typically flush several more hens than cock birds and your chasing dog will at best be wasting energy chasing until you can call him back and at worst, he might flush a rooster out of range.

Another issue is that if you hunt w/ a buddy & his dog, a couple of things will happen, none of them good. In one case a bird will flush and both dogs will chase. They might fight, they might destroy the bird, or one dog will dominate the other, possibly discouraging the loser from trying again. In another case, your buddy might have trained his dog to be steady. His dog is hunting for the opportunity to get a bird in his mouth and thatâ??s what makes him work hard. When he produces a bird and itâ??s hit, your dog runs in and steals the retrieve. The steady dog didnâ??t get his reward and your buddy will resent it as much as his dog.

My long time hunting partner & I used to have this discussion year after year until we were hunting to the edge of a field a few yrs. As we pushed to the road w/ his (non steady GSP) a rooster flushed & headed across the highway w/ the dog in hot pursuit. The dog missed being crushed by a farm truck coming over the hill by 20 yds and it was like a slow motion nightmare for both of us. Needless to say, my friend trained his next dog to be steady- itâ??s the only argument Iâ??ve ever won w/ him.
 
I fully understand all the pros and cons of having a dog steady to wing & shot. And I understand that some trainers do not feel a dog is "finished" until it is steady to wing & shot. But it obviously boils down to a personal choice, probably based on personal hunting styles.

The purpose of this thread was not to get into a debate on whether or not to have a dog steady to wing & shot. Nor was it meant to be discussion on whether you like NSTRA. I can see that this thread keeps wanting to go in a different direction so please so let's just drop it. It appears it's just all personal preference and optional if you are running NSTRA trials.

Thanks for eveyone's input.
 
I contacted a guy in Wisconsin that is a Brittany breeder/trainer that has been big in NSTRA for a lot of years and asked him about a dog being steady to wing & shot for NSTRA. Here was his response:

There is NO reason to make your dog steady to wing and shot for NSTRA. If you really want to make your dog more valuable in trials the best thing you could do is get your dog to STOP on a wild flush (Marked Bird). Lots of times the dog will run over a bird causing it to flush wild, with quail they often stay in the field thus in 3 min. you can go point it IF your dog does not take it out or re point it. This would be way better for you than a dog that is broke to wing and shot. You have nothing to gain and something to lose with a broke dog. If you miss the bird and it goes over a hill or if the dog would lose sight of the bird for any reason it would be difficult for the dog to make the retrieve. If the dog is in motion chasing the bird generally it WILL get the retrieve.
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From what I have seen George, I agree 100%. Good post..........Bob
 
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