Second count by DNR

moellermd said:
We'll isn't that interesting...
Click to expand...

Well there was their chance to sugar coat the numbers and they reported slightly LOWER numbers--- guess they just do what they are paid to do and that does not surprise me at all. :thumbsup:
 
Heres my professional opinion..

Comments from the wife, who has an extreme amount of knowledge in this field, as work and her Masters was on road side surveys and the validity.


The roadside counts have some validity- otherwise they wouldn't do them. Are they 100% accurate? No. But they give the agencies something to look at year after year to see general long term population trends. It wasn't clear in the article if they repeated the surveys. It doesn't seem like they did. Statistically, the fewer repetitions of a survey, the less accurate the results are. The additional surveys they conducted later in the year may have resulted in lower counts for a variety of reasons, the biggest I see is that the crops and grasses are taller, making it harder to see pheasants along the road. I think they even stated in there that the survey conditions were not ideal.

The spring hatch probably wasn't great- it was cold, wet, and long... It sounds like some hens nested again, but many times these broods are smaller. There is less habitat out there, which doesn't help either as far as overwintering.

I think that, yes, there probably are fewer pheasants this year than in previous years. I don't think that it's going to ruin the SD hunting economy though, and I don't think it means that you're not going to see birds when you're out there. Case in point- we've seen birds; just not roosters. I think lots of people will still limit out. It will just take them until sunset to do so, rather than noon (5 hours less of drinking... how will they survive?!). Hunters may have to work harder for the birds. Get over it. If someone is that worried about the state of the pheasants, then do what you can to create habitat out there for them. That's the biggest issue. The populations will drop if they lose habitat. There's no question about that. In the habitat there is, the birds are going to get a lot of pressure. So they probably will be more skittish and flush really early. But, since you can't shoot hens, the hunting pressure isn't going to change next year's hatch. Hunters aren't going to shoot all of the roosters in an area, there will be plenty out there to breed next spring.

In general, spend less time complaining online about how that hunting isn't as easy as it was 10 years ago and focus on doing something to change it (if it is truly that big of an issue for you).
 
Lazer-UPH said:
Comments from the wife, who has an extreme amount of knowledge in this field, as work and her Masters was on road side surveys and the validity.


The roadside counts have some validity- otherwise they wouldn't do them. Are they 100% accurate? No. But they give the agencies something to look at year after year to see general long term population trends. It wasn't clear in the article if they repeated the surveys. It doesn't seem like they did. Statistically, the fewer repetitions of a survey, the less accurate the results are. The additional surveys they conducted later in the year may have resulted in lower counts for a variety of reasons, the biggest I see is that the crops and grasses are taller, making it harder to see pheasants along the road. I think they even stated in there that the survey conditions were not ideal.

The spring hatch probably wasn't great- it was cold, wet, and long... It sounds like some hens nested again, but many times these broods are smaller. There is less habitat out there, which doesn't help either as far as overwintering.

I think that, yes, there probably are fewer pheasants this year than in previous years. I don't think that it's going to ruin the SD hunting economy though, and I don't think it means that you're not going to see birds when you're out there. Case in point- we've seen birds; just not roosters. I think lots of people will still limit out. It will just take them until sunset to do so, rather than noon (5 hours less of drinking... how will they survive?!). Hunters may have to work harder for the birds. Get over it. If someone is that worried about the state of the pheasants, then do what you can to create habitat out there for them. That's the biggest issue. The populations will drop if they lose habitat. There's no question about that. In the habitat there is, the birds are going to get a lot of pressure. So they probably will be more skittish and flush really early. But, since you can't shoot hens, the hunting pressure isn't going to change next year's hatch. Hunters aren't going to shoot all of the roosters in an area, there will be plenty out there to breed next spring.

In general, spend less time complaining online about how that hunting isn't as easy as it was 10 years ago and focus on doing something to change it (if it is truly that big of an issue for you).
Click to expand...


Well said.
 
roads count said it pretty clear bird numbers way down cant argue that!!! not probably down definitely down cant sugar coat that or hope both road side surveys are off or wrong or birds were in cover ETC. surveys farmers & hunters all agree bird numbers way down except a few guides that have 1000s of birds left??? people realize that when they keep saying you have to work all day for your birds & whats wrong with that??? well for years you didnt have to bust balls to get a few birds in the bag now you MUST to get a limit that also says SD pheasants are in trouble correct??? we have to work all day in MN for a limit as well SD & MN should not be in same ballpark pheasant numbers or hunting wise thats sad for SD!!! good for MN!!!

also a 2-3 of the guides on here do see SD pheasant hunting taking a dip/dive in numbers if the bird numbers continue to drop & crop prices continue to increase they have had groups cancel already just due to the doom & gloom & last yrs slow hunts... if we keep ignoring the prob & saying they will just have to work harder for the birds & stop crying then in 4-5 yrs SD will be another IA KS & MN a once was pheasant hunting destination...

i doubt there will be a big surge in non resident hunters looking for hunting lands in SD to improve & restore to the golden age of SD pheasant hunting until then i assume there will be many more concerned pheasant hunters wishing & hope n that SD will turn things around for the better of pheasants in SD...???

with the amount of $$$ the state of SD makes of non resident & resident pheasant hunters you would think they would care a little more about there pheasants then they do??? i mean if MNDNR had a shortage on walleyes in our MN lakes they would stock some buy some or what ever they could do to keep the quality of the walleye fishery alive & strong i dont understand why the SD game & fish has no concern with do that??? they dont buy new lands in pheasant range they lease WIA just look at a large part of the SD pheasant range wear its great hunting little to no public lands options??? thr SD game & fish needs to help out in these core areas of the SD pheasant range instead of catch n & releasing pheasants into & around places like RAPID CITY & HOT SPRINGS in the black hills for people to hunt thats non dumb to me??? nobody travels from another state to hunt the pheasants in the black hills sorry to say...
 
small munsterlander owner said:
i dont understand why the SD game & fish has no concern with do that??? they dont buy new lands in pheasant range they lease WIA just look at a large part of the SD pheasant range wear its great hunting little to no public lands options??? thr SD game & fish needs to help out in these core areas of the SD pheasant range instead of catch n & releasing pheasants into & around places like RAPID CITY & HOT SPRINGS in the black hills for people to hunt thats non dumb to me??? nobody travels from another state to hunt the pheasants in the black hills sorry to say...
Click to expand...

1.The SDGF&P can not just go buy new land--seems the local people don't want lots of it---changes the tax loads

2. As for the catch and release in the Rapid City & Hot Springs areas--really I was not aware they did that. In the Hot Springs area there are several public land areas some of them have been there a long time and there is a brand new one on the west side of Aangstora Lake.

3. Nobody travels from another state to the Black Hills--so your saying the hell with the residents of SD, you don't count--it's all for the non-resident.

4. You know a LOT OF WORK on the western SD pheasant habitat to include the public lands near Hot Springs, Oral, Belle Fourche, Phillp and others was and is still being done by the Black Hills Chapter of PHEASANTS FOREVER--its not all just the SDGF&P but they do work together. In fact there is a new PF chapter in Hot Springs to help the cause down there.

5. Overall the SDGF&P does a really good job--sure they make mistakes but to imply they don't know what they are doing is just not right

Your way off base here

JIM
 
Talking about road counts and pheasants. My Sept trip to MT covered a lot of back roads through some of MT best pheasant range. Early mornings, late afternoons, should spot lots of pheasant s right?
If you wanted to base MT pheasant populations by what I saw, there would be no reason to hunt pheasants in MT this Fall.
Reason, cover, lots of cover, road counts with all the cover are not going to be realistic.
Say the cover was dry, drought stressed, birds are much more visible.
 
the fact of the matter is, as I see it, is as follows:

1. the roadside surveys use the same methodology ever year, yes there may be differences based on dew and other habitat conditions...but it is what it is.
2. the long, cool, wet spring really trashed the first hatch..2nd attempts always result in lesser recruitment.
3. the lack of suitable nesting cover this spring, was adversely affected by the drought last year and the mowing of all standing grass, as never before, so habitat was a real issue, until the rains came and summer growth was put on in the grass and hay fields...but this was not available in May for first nesting attempts by hens.
4. less static habitat every year, wall to wall corn and bean fields are becoming the norm, I have seen it myself, whole sections of corn...disgusting.

all together, production of pheasants was wayyyy down.
 
How about this, instead of crying about the numbers being way down, or arguing about if they really are or not. Get out there and hunt. That is what the sport is, if not go to the local grocery store buy some chicken and stay home.

It has been getting to a point here on the forum where a few people have cried and whined about the numbers where they hunt or the guy they know who knows a guy says they are way down. You are being a negative "Nancy", and then you bash those who have been getting reports of guys that actually show proof of numbers.

DO NOT DISCOURAGE those who want to take the sport up, or willing to travel 22hours to hunt. I am not saying if someone asked you can not give your opinion, but some have beat this topic to death in order to stir the pot.

As far as the reports from roadside surveys, I do not take heart to those. Plus there has been plenty in field reports that show the hunts are quite successful. So if it was me, who has seen both the reports, and some first hand accounts, I would in a heartbeat pick up and drive out to hunt.
 
for guys not willing to pay to play the reports are kinda discouraging of course the guides & people paying to play will have reports of great success & plenty of birds if only they could shoot better ETC. but there are a few reports of hours of walking for 1 or 2 roosters flushed in SD even with corn standing it should be better then that...??? i just got back from a MN hunt wear i seen 20 birds on a WMA the next day close to 30 corn standing on 3 sides cattail slough the other side but i would only assume in SD people should of been seeing something similar but???

as for SDJIM come on jim dont pick & choose parts of what i post & leave out the main parts or try to change/twist my meaning thats for kids???

i think you know what i was saying very well that instead of the SD GAME & FISH helping PF chapters acquire lands or acquire & release pheasants in a NON TRADITIONAL pheasant hunting range or region they could & should be doing that very same thing over in WINNER DALLAS CHAMBERLAIN OACOMA PIERRE & many other areas of SD there is huge areas wear its only pay to play to pheasant hunt & yes them locals dont want public land thats B/S as is any way if they dont like public lands fine trust them same locals to give a hoot about the wild pheasants if the corn prices stay on the incline & then u will see how fast they can cut that prairie grass & burn that wetland & pheasant habitat to plant corn!!! whats better ruffle a few feathers of some people who are dead wrong & against public lands & create a public tract of land for our future & pheasants future or let the pheasants & other wildlifes habitat go to waste for $$$ if that so be the locals wishes??? PF i thought was against that type of thing??? & incourages people to donate or make a public tract of land??? i guess thats not for SD??? MN is not better then SD for pheasant hunting but i know for a fact ill always have the same public lands to hunt here in MN as i did on opener thats a great feeling to have even if its a little crowded on opener...

all i said was people or hunters dont travel to the black hills to pheasant hunt i dont know how many black hills residents posts ive read on these forums that say dont waste ur time in the black hills for pheasants head east 1-2 hours them local residents were not saying heck with us they were saying its not worth pheasant hunting here in the hills i agree but i was not saying my NON RESIDENT $$$ or hunt or limit of pheasant is more importent then a SD residents was simply saying PF & SD GAME & FISH should spend time & $$$ acquiring public lands & even releasing birds if need be wear 98% of the pheasant hunting is done in SD from the MN border to the MO river & even west of the MO river 40-80 miles east or west or so & from the ND border to the NE border north & south not over in the black hills...

i also dont plan or cancel a trip due to the roadside survey but the road side survey & a bunch or local or non resident hunters that hunt 100% public lands reporting bad hunts & bird numbers does throw a wrench in things because they all cant be wrong SD game & fish included... & i know for a fact that wear guides & people farm for pheasants there will be birds but we all cant afford to go that route that narrows us down to public lands in the few areas wear the survey did say there was birds & i wonder how many guys have already hit them areas come dec 1??? i plan to if i can make the trip to SD go as soon as the corn come out in a majority of the state that should even things out a little??? hope everybody & there brother & his friend dont get then same idea as me? fingers crossed!!!

any way dont let the low bird numbers & bad reports stop you from loading the guns & dogs & heading west like many guides & people who only hunt SD for the friendships say a bad day pheasant hunting in SD is better then any place else on earth so if you bag a limit do a little dance & if not say u were not there for that any way & crack a smile...
 
Last edited:
Want to know how to fix all of this???? Get the government to pass a farm bill. It would be one big step in the right direction. Take all your anger about land getting tilled up. Call up your government officials and tell them this is your number one priority and if they don't get one passed you will not vote for them. Farmers are running a business and they will do what they can to make the most money they can. Thats the American way. If they can plant marginal land and still make a profit due to insurance that is what they are going to do. Now if they can leave that land native and not have to plant it convert it back into Crp, wetlands etc.... and make the same amount of money or more you guessed it. Thats what they will do. Why do you think WPA's opened up just before the beginning of hunting season? Because a bunch of sportsman got pissed and got organized and put pressure on some politicians.
 
Last edited:
I have really come to appreciate this forum and posts by regulars such as SMO, Chris, and others. The SD bird numbers remind me of the northern Alberta duck numbers from 2009-11, where severe drought virtually eliminated nesting habitat for ducks, resulting in very poor results for ducks (not geese) during that time. We could have swung over to Saskatchewan, where nesting habitat and duck numbers were much stronger, or endure the drought until conditions improved. For us the decision was easy. We have developed many great friendships that have become as important as the trip itself. Three years later the duck numbers are back to what they used to be,
and the hunting is as good as ever. Having several great SD years of success in a row, we will deal with the tough ones, hoping they too will bounce back.
Only time will tell, although bringing back at least some of the lost habitat will be the "ultimate" factor.
My wife Laura and I will be on the road Oct 30th with our labs, and can hardly wait. I wish you all a great fall hunting season, the best part of the year! I personally look forward to a great workout with the dogs, cold brew at sunset with my bride, feeding hungry dogs and cleaning our harvest.
P.S. we did very well last year in spite of very low #'s!
 
Tbear said:
Want to know how to fix all of this???? Get the government to pass a farm bill. It would be one big step in the right direction. Take all your anger about land getting tilled up. Call up your government officials and tell them this is your number one priority and if they don't get one passed you will not vote for them. Farmers are running a business and they will do what they can to make the most money they can. Thats the American way. If they can plant marginal land and still make a profit due to insurance that is what they are going to do. Now if they can leave that land native and not have to plant it convert it back into Crp, wetlands etc.... and make the same amount of money or more you guessed it. Thats what they will do. Why do you think WPA's opened up just before the beginning of hunting season? Because a bunch of sportsman got pissed and got organized and put pressure on some politicians.
Click to expand...

people all over were just pissed at the closures, all closures...a farm bill will not help, you would never get a government payment large enough to cause farmers to put land back into CRP...government can't afford those kind of subsides...everything would remain in row crop production.
 
Wow--small munsterland owner I only quoted part of your post--because I agreed with the rest of it but I did not agree with the part on the Black Hills or the tone that you took on the SDGF&P. Local PF chapters keep all of the money they raise to fund local projects--that's their reason for success (and their charter), yes the Black Hills will never be a go to pheasant hunting mecca---but 300 to 400 people that attend the local PF banquet in Rapid City every year and raise $20,000 to $30,000 expect it to be put to use in the local area. A hard working SMALL group of people do just that and the SDFG&P does what it can to help and they do a good job of it--what's wrong with that?? As to the state getting more land for public hunting--- as a lifetime resident of SD I can tell you one thing for sure---South Dakota is a state of TWO parts-- East River and West River and they are not at all the same place--I won't go into that but rest assured that getting new public land West River is several factors of ten harder then East River.

I'll never post a partial quote from you again (full quotes only)--but if I don't agree with you or feel you don't have your facts straight I will point that out--it's not personal. Have great season this year. :cheers:
 
In my early days hunting with Dad and friends in NE WY Black Hills we hunted deer turkeys, Sharptails and Pheasants, wild pheasants.:thumbsup:
No kidding, those perennial streams/creeks flowing out of the hills into the foothill type country created excellent pheasant habitat.
Belle Fouche River country in WY an W SD has pheasants, plenty of them.

:cheers:
 
Just got back from a trip to South Dakota hunting all public land. The bird numbers were definitely down from past years but there were still plenty of birds to throw some lead at. We hunted hard and managed limits two of the days we hunted along with a few sharpies each day. I never got to see 1,000 flushing out of one field but we did see a couple hundred in a few fields. A slow year in South Dakota reminds me of a great year in Kansas. For those that don't mind working hard (the way it should be) there is still plenty of action to be found in South Dakota.
View attachment 4000
 
I think the moral of the story here is to get as far away from the road as possible while hunting pheasants in SD this year. There has been very little pheasant habitat near roadways in the last 2 years, so why should anyone expect the birds to be there during the counts? Every ditch near where we hunt has been mowed down to the dirt and the number of birds we see driving around has gone down dramatically. I have a feeling that the birds will again be abundant in the best shelter belts, draws, and cattail areas we hunt.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top