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troutthink

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Sorry for the long post but I'd like some help from the experts. Grew up raising english setters hunting ruffed grouse in VA/WVA.

Fast fwd 20 years and I was itching for another dog last winter. Three young ladies in the house insisted on adopting a yellow lab. Looked long a hard and found a 4 year old with great lines. Never hunted. Started her off easy last spring just working fields and shooting the 22 this summer with no issues. She never gave any inclination that she was afraid of loud noises. (22, vacuum cleaner, three loud kids in house, jets overhead)

Took her out two weeks ago and she hunted great and I killed a two birds over her.

Fast fwd to this week. She started off hunting great but started to hang back some when we got into birds. She would hang back 40 or so yards and just look at me. I'd call her up and praise her and she would be fine for a bit.

Next day out she hunted the first field then ran back to the truck. She would not get out of the truck for the rest of the day. Slower than most but I finally put the pieces together and figured out she was afraid of the shotgun. Had a bird in the truck and worked with her on the retrieve (no problem). Shot the gun and threw the bird and she just wanted to slime away from me.

Kind of at a loss here. I don't want to make it any worse. She is not deathly afraid of the shotgun but would prefer to not be around it. My thoughts are to stop hunting her this year and go to the local gun club every week. Start off well away and play ball and give treats. Slowly work my way closer to the shooting and maybe she will be good next year. Thoughts?

I know I won't have the perfect gun dog here but I am shooting for a great companion that will enjoy some great days in the field.
 
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Let me see if I can get this started for you. I have no first hand experience with a gun shy dog. If I was going to tackle the job I'd first put the gun up. I'd go back to retrieving. I think you need to get the dog crazy about the retrieve, and I mean crazy... eyes popped out foaming at the mouth crazy. At that point you are going to need another dog to work with. Stake your dog out and have him watch this other dog work from afar. No guns, just retrieves. A couple at a time and put him up. Read your dog on the distance and how many days he has to watch. I'm sure some adjustments will have to be made. When he can't stand it anymore give him a retrieve. Work him a while this way keeping his intensity up. Mix it up, give the helper dog two yours one. Yours three his one, so he never knows when its going to be his turn to go.
Now you are going to have to go back through the same process with the gun. No birds, just bumpers and gun. Small gauge and plenty of distance to begin with. When the guns no longer a problem you can bring birds back into the equation. Pigeons, chuckers, it would probably best to stay away from pheasants to begin with. These are are hand thrown already dead birds. Freeze um and reuse them. Move to hand thrown live birds, plant a few and you're done.
I know it sounds like a lot of work, and I'm sure it is going to be. If you're serious about correcting the problem I don't think there are going to be any shortcuts. Good luck, BDC2.
Now that this is started, I'm sure you'll get a few more suggestions. I'm interested to see some who have gone through it. How it turned out and learn other and probably better ways of doing it.
 
The gun club approach doesn't sound as if it will hurt, but it seems as though she may be associating birds with the sound, given that she started hanging back when you got into birds. Sounds as if she anticipated what would come - the noise. Getting her gung ho crazy about birds may be the answer so that she doesn't care about any associated noises. I had a pup that wasn't as crazy about birds as we wanted, so a wise friend/trainer taught me to walk the dog in the fields and repeatedly throw live pigeons in front of the dog to get him juiced. It worked. In your case, once the dog is gaga, having a helper shoot a gun in the distance may be the answer, gradually working closer.

If you don't find the solution, you would seem to have a pretty good bargaining chip for adding a dog of YOUR choice to the family. :) Good luck.
 
The gun club approach doesn't sound as if it will hurt, but it seems as though she may be associating birds with the sound, given that she started hanging back when you got into birds. Sounds as if she anticipated what would come - the noise. Getting her gung ho crazy about birds may be the answer so that she doesn't care about any associated noises. I had a pup that wasn't as crazy about birds as we wanted, so a wise friend/trainer taught me to walk the dog in the fields and repeatedly throw live pigeons in front of the dog to get him juiced. It worked. In your case, once the dog is gaga, having a helper shoot a gun in the distance may be the answer, gradually working closer.

If you don't find the solution, you would seem to have a pretty good bargaining chip for adding a dog of YOUR choice to the family. :) Good luck.
 
Thanks for the input. Looks like a bit of a long road ahead but I am willing. I have been looking into some local dog clubs but think I will have to tackle most of this on my own. She is just not ready for the guns yet. We have been working every day on the retrieving and she is ready to go. No issues there. I just need to get some birds to move to the next step.

I am still kicking myself for not doing this right the first time.

Thanks again for the help. If I run into any issues along the way, I'll hit you gentlemen up.
 
I'm glad to see you are going through with it. I thought you might have run a search and figured out some ways to go about it. I didn't see a post in the training forum, so I threw a reply out there just in case we were leaving you hanging.
I wouldn't beat yourself up to much, it sounds like she was doing fine until the second outing. I imagine something else happened that she now associates with the gun. It could have been anything: she could of ran into something, stepped on something, had a run in with the bird. I have one that when she hits an electric fence, it messes her up for the day. She becomes a boot licker and you might as well put her up. Sorry I'm rambling. Any way good luck and let us now how it turns out.
 
Again thanks for in the info. I didn't make a post, just searched the training forum. Wow. More info in there than I can digest in one sitting. I think I have the way ahead figured out now, just have to get started.
 
The little bit of experience that I have with gun dogs have shown that the words "gun shy" is the tag hung on any dog that doesn't act just right when reacting to the report of the gun. I think there are very few sporting dogs that are truly gun shy, which I would describe as a dog that is simply terrified of the gun. (as witnessed by the reaction to just seeing a gun) I can only think of one dog in over 30 years that I would describe as hopeless. "Gun nervy" is probably a more accurate term.
I have heard the gun club theory,and seen people actually walking dogs down the trap line on lead while others bang away. Think about the dog for a minute. Now you are simultaneously exposing the dog to new, and very intimidating surroundings, while also exposing the dog to the sound it apparently doesn't like. IMO don't do it.
I would try to identify what the dog loves more than anything. In most cases it's birds.But to yours it might be playing frisbee at the park, just frolicing with the kids or playing with others at the dog park . Let the dog have a blast,don't worry if it's paying attention to you,better if he's not. Now at a distance,hold your starter pistol behind your back,don't let him see it, and fire it into the ground.Regardless of the dog's reaction just act like nothing happened, don't say "good boy", "bad dog" or anything. Let him go back to what he was doing for awhile, then do it again. Remember, a little at a time. Stop while he's still having fun,and join in. Do this until you see no reaction,or a positive one. Only remake the bird/gun connection after lots of "no gun" bird fun. Now same story when he flushes, fire the pistol behind your back and act natural. This is a good time to work in the "gone away" or "no bird" command as the bird flys away. (If you get a pigeon trap and find a feed elevator etc. that wants them gone, you always have a good supply of free birds as the flyaway will go right back to your roost. The pigeon care is a job the kids love). Now you made a (hopefully) stress-free connection between the report and the bird.
Only go to the .410 after you have total confidence in what you are seeing with the blank pistol. Then start again,same story. At some point you will try to shoot the bird with the .410. Now he has made a low-stress connection between the report and his true love... the retrieve.
I know there are those on the forum who think that Kenneth Roebuck's book titled "Gun Dog Training for Spaniels and Retrievers" is outdated. Please trust me when I tell you the dog has not evolved much in the 30 years the book has been in publication. Get yourself a copy and follow it like the Bible. If you don't end up with a serviceable gun dog, I will kiss your ass.
I am not a pro trainer, or a competiton trialer, just a South Dakota Redneck with a couple dogs that "Get 'er Done" in the real world,here in the thick of it.
My latest dog is a salvage operation I found abandoned in Sept. In three months I can now shoot a prairie dog right out the truck window with the .270 and get nothing but excitement from him.
I know it's a long-winded post but sounds to me that you are at a critical point,could go either way right now. I want to see you succeed! Good luck and let us know how it goes.
 
Thanks for the tips and the lead on Roebuck's book. I'll check it out. I think I'll do some reading and start the training after the holiday's.

Andy
 
Andy

I have not had a dog that became "gun shy". But I had one that got close.
IMO the most important thing is to have the dog totaly focused on something at the shot during gun exposure.

The best way is to have them chasing a bird, that they think they can catch. A carded pigeon works great out of a launcher.

A carded pigeon is one that has a about 8"x10" piece of cardboard tied with some yarn to one leg. This will bring the bird back down so that the dog can catch it. This will really get him fired up. I would do a couple without a shot. Just let him get bird crazy. Then when he is really chasing hard, use a blank pistol that you can fire just before he gets to the bird. Watch him close. If he reacts to the shot you have to give him more time and more birds. Once you can fire a blank pistol without a reaction, you move to a shotgun. Stay back and fire away from the dog to start.

For you to have a hunting dog you have to get him over the fear of the shot. Everything else is secondary

If you can catch / trap some wild pigeons that is best. They are strong flyers and will fly far enough that the dog will get far enough away that the shot will not be as loud and the dog will be more intent on chasing it down.
 
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