Lab Won't Retrieve Birds

[drdrewdog]

I know: probably the first time that tag has been posted in the history of the world. I have a 6 year old female black lab who found and retrieved pheasants before she was a year old, then gradually slipped to the point where she no longer really looks for downed birds, let alone pick them up and deliver them. I suspect there are several causes, including me missing birds, too much recreational fetching (where she's visually chasing something) and probably a few frustrated attempts to find a cripple during really dry times. That's water under the bridge.

A few years ago when the issues manifested I worked several sessions with her and a guy doing pigeons and quail. She wasn't bad but during season regressed. The trainer told me I probably have what I have and can't improve her at this point. I have tried dragging a scented bumper and while she is interested, when she finds it she doesn't pick it up--like there is no interest in it if it's not a visual chase.

She's wonderful at finding and flushing pheasants. I took her to N. Minnesota last weekend and she did very well finding and flushing grouse in the woods. But I hate losing runners and if there is a way to work with her I'd love to hear it. Thank you in advance.

 

[KEOutdoors]

Was she ever force fetch trained?

 

[drdrewdog]

Was she ever force fetch trained?

She was not, as far as I know. I got her at 9 months and she'd been retrieving pigeons, was gun-shy-proofed, etc. FF is certainly an option even now.

 

[KEOutdoors]

She was not, as far as I know. I got her at 9 months and she'd been retrieving pigeons, was gun-shy-proofed, etc. FF is certainly an option even now.

Its really not an option, she wont respond well to it and probably put her the rest of the way off wanting to pick up anything. FF really needs to be done at 7-8mo, even 9-12mo dogs can struggle if you are late. It will take every bit of fun out of it and honestly she might just think you are being mean to her and cause a division between you for years. We do it at 8mo because the pup still has a lot of "puppy" in them and can recover from you being a complete a-hole to them for 3 weeks, which is exactly what FF is. An old dog is just going to say "screw you" when you pinch that ear and hold a bumper in her mouth while she is tied to a tree. If she was FF in the past there would be a few things you could do.

I would say just try pure excitement. If that means unloading your gun and laying on the ground to get her super exited to pick up that bird and bring it to you during a hunt, so be it. Almost treating her as a puppy to make it more of a game. Its extremely hard to "fix" when a dog loses the drive once a bird is downed and doesn't consider it her job to find and retrieve the bird already. Tons of rewards when she does look for and find that bird, like a new puppy.

Try starting over like its a new dog. Id call your buddies and put the word out that you need a couple dead roosters/grouse/quail/whatever you hunt- to work with. Not pigeons, but real game birds. Call your local preserve and buy a couple if you need to, they will have dead ones in the pens every day that they will sell you for dog training. Have her walk in thick grass, pull the bird out of your vest and throw it right out in front of her with a gunshot when she isnt watching you, tons of excitement to get her to go for it and then treats/attention when she does go and pick it up- even if she doesnt bring it back the first few times. Get right up there too, just picking it up and bringing 2 feet is reward time in beginning. Repeat 700 times.

Do this every single day, after work or whatever, until she starts to lose interest each day. Might be once, might be 50 times a day. Toss bird in freezer between sessions. Thats the only way you are going to reinstate that drive in her to "finish" the process of flush-to-hand. Remember your treats while hunting too, reward reward reward

Good luck

 

[drdrewdog]

Its really not an option, she wont respond well to it and probably put her the rest of the way off wanting to pick up anything. FF really needs to be done at 7-8mo, even 9-12mo dogs can struggle if you are late. It will take every bit of fun out of it and honestly she might just think you are being mean to her and cause a division between you for years. We do it at 8mo because the pup still has a lot of "puppy" in them and can recover from you being a complete a-hole to them for 3 weeks, which is exactly what FF is. An old dog is just going to say "screw you" when you pinch that ear and hold a bumper in her mouth while she is tied to a tree. If she was FF in the past there would be a few things you could do.

I would say just try pure excitement. If that means unloading your gun and laying on the ground to get her super exited to pick up that bird and bring it to you during a hunt, so be it. Almost treating her as a puppy to make it more of a game. Its extremely hard to "fix" when a dog loses the drive once a bird is downed and doesn't consider it her job to find and retrieve the bird already. Tons of rewards when she does look for and find that bird, like a new puppy.

Try starting over like its a new dog. Id call your buddies and put the word out that you need a couple dead roosters/grouse/quail/whatever you hunt- to work with. Not pigeons, but real game birds. Call your local preserve and buy a couple if you need to, they will have dead ones in the pens every day that they will sell you for dog training. Have her walk in thick grass, pull the bird out of your vest and throw it right out in front of her with a gunshot when she isnt watching you, tons of excitement to get her to go for it and then treats/attention when she does go and pick it up- even if she doesnt bring it back the first few times. Get right up there too, just picking it up and bringing 2 feet is reward time in beginning. Repeat 700 times.

Do this every single day, after work or whatever, until she starts to lose interest each day. Might be once, might be 50 times a day. Toss bird in freezer between sessions. Thats the only way you are going to reinstate that drive in her to "finish" the process of flush-to-hand. Remember your treats while hunting too, reward reward reward

Good luck

Thank you VERY much. I will find the time to do this. I've been told to just get a second dog and be sure THAT one tracks crips, but my lab is a good one and has a few years left. I do plan to get a hunting cocker in the next few years as I hunt almost exclusively solo in smaller defined spots.

Appreciate the response.

 

[Jawilor]

It sounds like a frustrating situation. I'm curious if you introduced her to birds when she was a young pup? When my dogs are pups I started each with a freshly killed pigeon about once a day for a week, then move on to a clipped wing pigeon, then a full flier. My goal is to make them bird crazy early on. I currently have a male black lab and female springer, and both love to find birds. My Springer is 1/3 the size of my lab, and she insists on retrieving every dead bird. It's hard to believe a 45# dog can bully a 100# dog...lol

Here's my Springer at around 3.5 months old with a clip wing

 

[tomt]

How much do you play fetch with her with balls/toys etc? Is she crazy about retrieving those items? If so, I’d consider stopping all retrieving with those items, but doing retrieving with frozen pheasants/ chuckers etc. And even then, don’t do to many. Do 4 or 5 retrieves and then quite when she is still crazy for the retrieves. I’ve never heard of a lab that doesn’t love to retrieve. However, I have known labs ( not mine thank god) that don’t care much for birds. Replace the toys with birds, after the frozen are working, use thawed, fresh, live birds with clipped wings, a flyer tied to 40 ft of bailing twine. Sounds like she loses interest after awhile, don’t let her. Stop the fun before she wants to stop. If she gets bored after 3 retrieves, stop at 2. Then increase it little by little. Always think…… leave her wanting more!!!

Take her duck hunting!!!

 

[drdrewdog]

How much do you play fetch with her with balls/toys etc? Is she crazy about retrieving those items? If so, I’d consider stopping all retrieving with those items, but doing retrieving with frozen pheasants/ chuckers etc. And even then, don’t do to many. Do 4 or 5 retrieves and then quite when she is still crazy for the retrieves. I’ve never heard of a lab that doesn’t love to retrieve. However, I have known labs ( not mine thank god) that don’t care much for birds. Replace the toys with birds, after the frozen are working, use thawed, fresh, live birds with clipped wings, a flyer tied to 40 ft of bailing twine. Sounds like she loses interest after awhile, don’t let her. Stop the fun before she wants to stop. If she gets bored after 3 retrieves, stop at 2. Then increase it little by little. Always think…… leave her wanting more!!!

Take her duck hunting!!!

Thank you. I'm getting consistent answers so I'll get a program going.

Duck hunting? I've never done it. She is a monster water dog and terrific about retrieving bumpers from the water. But I do believe that you and KEO are right about non-bird objects being a key problem.