Lab does not hunt

moellermd

moellermd

Super Moderator
My wifes uncle who I hunt with bunch has a two year female lab. It came from a breeder whose "parents hunt great." The dog loves to retrieve dead birds and always wants to go hunting. The problem is that 90% of the time she just walks right beside her owner. If she sees a bird or there is a lot of scent she will take off after the bird or start covering ground. Every now and then she gets a little to crazy and runs to far and busts the birds out of gun range. When she get called back or "nicked" she goes right back to walking beside my wifes uncle. How do you get a dog to want to hunt for birds all the time and cover ground? I have hunted behind several labs that seem to have this same problem they just walk beside the owner or slighly ahead. She probably gets hunted 20 plus days a year.
 
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I am by no means a Lab expert. But I have read there is a gene in some labs that is called "non-slip retrieve". For that is what she is doing most of the time. I am wondering if this gene has been trained and used to where a real strong hunting instinct. Just isn't there anymore, in that strain of Labs. I guess what I'm trying to say is her bloodline has this breeding problem, where others don't.......Bob
 
Bob
Can you tell me anymore? Where did you read about the gene. Thanks
Mike
 
I'm sorry to say I read that many years ago in a magazine maybe. Which one is a good question. It could have been Outdoor Life or Field and Stream. It could have even been a training book. I looked and all my training books now are for pointing dogs. I have been hunting and working with dogs for 55 years. But the only time I was working with labs was in the late 50's. It is hard to say when and where I read it.......Bob
 
I think what we are getting into is the whole British vs American lab thing, another subject. But how do I help get her trained out of this or is it a lost cause?
 
M, if you go back to one post here where I talk about establishing a solid 1/4ing program using pigeons and a couple friends, it works well for labs. We train a lab for upland exactly the same way as a spaniel. many labs are taken duck hunting first and taught to sit tight in a blind or a boat and they get that habbit from that alot. The upland stuff should be taught first and then the heal, stay, and whatever stuff for waterfoul. But it can be fixed in many dogs. I will see if I can find that post, if not I will copy and paste a great article on that.
 
The problem you have here is the dog has already been trained this way and you have to change it.
When you start with a pup it is getting trained good and bad, If you dont train it it will train himself.

The reason the female wont go out is because heeling is SAFE, she cant get into trouble there.
If it was a dog i was going to train i would start almost over (just like a pup) with a check cord and run her through the field with no pressure and teach her what you want. I would put her on some birds and would collar condition her all over, it doesnt sound like she knows the WHY in the nick she is getting.

Kevin
 
I would agree she was not trained properly to begin with and feels safe walking there.

FC-I could not find the post on 1/4 with pigeons do you remember what it was titled?
 
"When she get called back or "nicked" she goes right back to walking beside my wifes uncle. How do you get a dog to want to hunt for birds all the time and cover ground?"
By nicking her she thinks the only safe place is at heel. If you want the dog to get out and hunt quit yelling and shocking when it goes out and hunts. Better to work on range without shocking. Not all pheasants are going to flush in range.
 
donnie_19 said:
By nicking her she thinks the only safe place is at heel. If you want the dog to get out and hunt quit yelling and shocking when it goes out and hunts. Better to work on range without shocking. Not all pheasants are going to flush in range.
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I disagree on this point. The dog understands the come command. When it decides to run 100 yards in front and not come when called it needs a friendly reminder. A dog that will not come when called can end up a dead dog in a hurry when it decides to chase deer across a road or into the next county. Pheasant hunting is not a lot of fun when every time you hit the mother load they all flush wild. I do not believe there is a link between being nicked when she runs long and not wanting to hunt. She is still driven to chase birds she can see or smell close by even after being corrected shortly before. This has been a problem for the last two seasons. Last year she did not wear a collar and we encountered the same problem. She has no desire to find scent when it is not right in her face.
 
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UplandHntr said:
be honest-what kind of shape is she in?
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I would not say she is fat. She has more cover than my two labs. I do not think she is overweight. The other lab he has is a rolly polly pile of lard and it hunts harder than she does (I think that dog has an eating disorder because when you cut back on feed he will go eat spilled corn by the augers or go the cattle feed :confused:.)
 
I'd let the dog run crazy busting birds for a while. Now I ain't an expert at all but in my mind letting the dog get out there and have fun for a while will give it confidence and let it know that its safe to get out there. After a while I'd then work on making it hunt for me.
 
by NICKING

her out there he made that spot HOT she isn't gonna wanna go back out there again :eek: boils down to train before the season not during .....FC gives great advise .I would go back and train this dog without the COLLAR:thumbsup:
 
BARTELS GUNDOGS said:
her out there he made that spot HOT she isn't gonna wanna go back out there again :eek: boils down to train before the season not during .....FC gives great advise .I would go back and train this dog without the COLLAR:thumbsup:
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I agree some training is needed before the season on this one. I have trouble understanding the rational of letting her run wild. Last season she had NO collar and would do the same thing. Walk beside the uncle until she saw birds run out and bust the birds. Return and walk beside uncle. Would not 1/4 at all. This process would repeat it self a couple times an outing. This year he put on the collar and the same thing happens. Walks beside, sees birds runs, wild and bust birds gets corrected IE nick, returns to walk by uncle. Again happens a couple times an outing. How does letting her run too big and not correcting her encourage her to 1/4 and look for scent and birds when it is not obvious. That is essentially the strategy he used last year. I am all for giving a young dog leeway I can't count the number of times my pup busted birds last year before I started correcting that behavior. I am by no means a dog training expert, have only trained 3.

If the corrections have not stopped her from running wild why would they have stopped her from wanting to actively look for birds?

If he follows that advice of letting her run wild how does he train the 1/4? That is what she lacks. Collar or no collar, correction or no correction she does not want to 1/4. FC pigeon thing might be the answer.

I really do appreciate the advice.
 
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moellermd said:
I disagree on this point. The dog understands the come command. When it decides to run 100 yards in front and not come when called it needs a friendly reminder. A dog that will not come when called can end up a dead dog in a hurry when it decides to chase deer across a road or into the next county. Pheasant hunting is not a lot of fun when every time you hit the mother load they all flush wild. I do not believe there is a link between being nicked when she runs long and not wanting to hunt. She is still driven to chase birds she can see or smell close by even after being corrected shortly before. This has been a problem for the last two seasons. Last year she did not wear a collar and we encountered the same problem. She has no desire to find scent when it is not right in her face.
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What did they use to get her back without using the collar last year?

when training a lab or pointer or any bird dog (birds) are suppose to be non pressure, the come command or here should have been established at 6 months without birds.

Try taking her out just her no other dogs (some dogs dont do well with other dogs in front) and just somebody she trusts, let her work the field and just follow her, if she busts a bird oh well. lots of praise and make it fun.....
 
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moellermd said:
After the birds are gone she loses interest and returns on her own and continues the afternoon stroll.
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Was she scolded or yelled at that first year? what was her penalty for bumping the birds? verbal?
 
Disinterested Lab

I'm not a Lab expert, but two things come to mind. First, I have heard that Labs are very sensitive to being shocked. Second, Labs were not developed to upland hunt. They were bred to sight retrieve in water, a completely different skill set than an upland bird dog is bred for. I understand that breeders have tried to selectively breed Labs that will upland hunt, but if the breed is essentially a sight water retriever, you're working against the grain trying to get upland hunters out of them.
 
moellermd said:
I agree some training is needed before the season on this one. I have trouble understanding the rational of letting her run wild. Last season she had NO collar and would do the same thing. Walk beside the uncle until she saw birds run out and bust the birds. Return and walk beside uncle. Would not 1/4 at all. This process would repeat it self a couple times an outing. This year he put on the collar and the same thing happens. Walks beside, sees birds runs, wild and bust birds gets corrected IE nick, returns to walk by uncle. Again happens a couple times an outing. How does letting her run too big and not correcting her encourage her to 1/4 and look for scent and birds when it is not obvious. That is essentially the strategy he used last year. I am all for giving a young dog leeway I can't count the number of times my pup busted birds last year before I started correcting that behavior. I am by no means a dog training expert, have only trained 3.

If the corrections have not stopped her from running wild why would they have stopped her from wanting to actively look for birds?

If he follows that advice of letting her run wild how does he train the 1/4? That is what she lacks. Collar or no collar, correction or no correction she does not want to 1/4. FC pigeon thing might be the answer.

I really do appreciate the advice.
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OK with the PM's and that article, he has plenty to do for awhile, when he gets to planting birds, always flyer,clipwing, flyer. Then if the dog starts punching, roll in birds, so she does not find any way out. you have to kinda see saw or go back and fourth with that, no collar for quite some time, this could shut the dog down again. Only after doing this for awhile should you use a collar for a dog punching. Only finding birds close by rolling will have the same effect, only positive. Once they are boot licking or running flat, plant again. And I am talking different sessions here, do what ever you are doing with the few birds and quit, then do it again later. But which ever you do, roll or plant, do that for a couple days.And into the wind as I said for awhile. Hope he gives it an honest effort and let us know how it works. It will take a couple months 2-3 times a week.
 
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