Interesting talk to PGC.

25ott6

25ott6

Member
Hunted #226 today talked to the pgc. he said by next year every single fence row will be gone next year and switch grass will be planted in every field. No more food plots of anything. He said thats how it is in the Dakota's.
 
Was that for that particular SGL or all of them? They got a lot of work ahead of them if they do that to all the SGL.
 
SGL 226 is in close proximity to the WPRA. That WPRA has had oustanding results on the farms that are predominantly switch grass. I think they are trying to get as much nesting cover as they can in that area. I think some banded hens from the released WILD BIRDS have shown up on that SGL.

I don't think at this time they are considering it for ALL SGL's, fence rows and food plots still have their place!

VERY interesting Post!
 
I believe that is the new way of doing things. For game farm pheasant hunting I think it's OK. For wild pheasant areas having a food plot close to the switchgrass is a must.
 
Ya just this one. He said it was to save money no more planting just burn off every 2-3 years. The dumb thing is the PPL lands that are between this and the WPRA are nothing but Beans in almost all the fields, I just think it's a waste you can hunt them becouse there in the WPRA and there manageing it to not hold any birds to bad.
 
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I think it's a matter of the smart people picking and choosing their battles. In a perfect world we would have more people like Mr. DeLaney in the PGC! Plus the PPL property is different enity, the PGC doesn't have total say there.

The C.S. Chapter of Pheasants Forever is working hard to plant as much switch grass in that area as possible. But it takes a lot of funds and manpower.
Personally I would like to see the other Pa. Chapters contribute to such projects. This is our best chance to bring back wild pheasant hunting and no stone should be left unturned. Collectively the Chapters are a strong force, why let one Chapter foot the bill when the future of the WHOLE state is at stake!
 
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The grass alone is not good enough and doesn't provide adequate nutrition and cover for winter and early spring survival. One lesson learned in the Dakotas is the importance of stands of berry and fruit producing woody stemmed shrubs and low growing trees for late season pheasants. Eliminating hedge rows is a huge mistake. Cutting down the taller trees in hedge rows is probably a good idea though. I grew up in Northeast Ohio when there were wild pheasants around and these were important late season habitats for finding birds. The original habitats in Asia where pheasants originated are predominantly grass and shrub lands. Multiflora rose came from those same regions and you will find that pheasants rely on that type of cover late in the season here as well. The importance of some amount of unharvested or scattered grain crops also should not be underestimated.
 
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Huntsem, I agree with your comments but most of PA is put and take pheasant hunting. The idea is to provide huntable cover but also make it so most birds are harvested. In wild pheasant areas, some thick hedgerows are great winter cover. Cover for wild pheasant hunting and put and take pheasant hunting have different goals. Don't underestimate a thick field of switchgrass. It is not your typical grass field. I see very little of it in western states. None of it in CRP and only state owned wildlife areas. In the east it has proven to be a key ingredient to pheasant numbers. Of course a food source in the form of nearby agriculture is also important. Every state and habitat I have hunted in requires the same two things to find pheasants in good numbers = grass & food. In rough weather some woody cover is a plus.
 
I'm familiar with the tall dense stands of switch grass. IMO it's not a preferred type of cover for pheasants as they like to have some room to move around. I rarely find birds in it unless there isn't any other decent kind of cover around and even then they are most often just around the edges.
There's a good reason that you don't see large dense stands of switch grass in CRP, it's not a diverse enough type of cover. I hunt NW PA. and where there is good cover stocked birds will survive well into the end of the season. Where there isn't good diverse types of food and cover they don't.
 
The Switch Grass alone is probably fine for the put and take.
If You want to establish wild breeding pheasants You will need the grass sure.
Much better to have a mix of alfalfa and or Sweet Clover with the grass. This forms a nice canopy and a steady food source. Provides nesting and young brood safety from Spring Storms and predators. Grass alone does little and tends to mat and thicken, Alfalfa and Sweetclover won't, and it does not need burn offs.
Depends on Your Winter of course. Woody/brushy cover nearby is a must. Foodplots are a good plan.
 
Gentleman, I have heard this all before. The diversity mantra almost sunk our wild pheasant reintroduction program. While the idea of diversity is absolutely correct, it's application is flawed when it comes to winter cover and nesting cover. Also, using it in the east is much different than using it in the western prairie states. Here in the east, our landscape is fragmented into smaller fields. We have landscape diversity through fragmentation. You only need to go a couple hundred yards to find the food and other needs the pheasant requires. Our diverse plantings of big bluestem and Indiangrass are useless for winter cover as they lodge terribly and provide no winter cover. Switchgrass has saved the day and only by accident. Against the local biologists recommendation, we had one farmer plant a 40 acre field with 10 lb/acre switchgrass. The population of birds here is fantastic. We are past theory on this idea, we have the numbers to show it. I have been accused of wanting to plant nothing but switchgrass. The reason why I want to do that is because we in such short supply of good winter and nesting cover. If our CREP acres were 50% primarlily switchgrass, we would have a pheasant explosion here. I am not recommending planting a quarter in the Midwest with swtichgrass. That does create a monoculture situation. Planting 50 or 75 acres of the quarter would be a great idea. There must be some agriculture or food plots nearby to provide food, but you would notice the difference. I have only ever seen one switchgrass field that was too dense to provide cover. It had been planted at 20 lbs/acre by mistake. A dog couldn't even get through it. We have found that at 8 to 10 lbs, there is plenty of open spaces for movement.
 
Lets size it down to a 40.
20 acres is a nice stand of Switch Grass, weeds and etc have been controlled.

20 acres is half and half, most any type taller grass and Vernal or Ranger Alfalfa, Not mowed not sprayed and certainly not burned.

With a good population of wild peasants, where do You suppose 90 percent of the pheasants. will be 90 percent of the time? Spring, Summer, Fall. During heavy snow periods brushy stuff is imperative.

Nuff Said. :)
 
I also believe that a majority of the time birds will not hang out in dense switch. The exceptions are when they have been pushed into it or when it has flatten rows from farm equipment or more open spaces throughout.

I too have seen the dense stands of switch that a dog can hardly get through.
Generally I do not find birds deep into this kind of field, put and take or otherwise.

From my own observations of hunting in NE Ohio and NW Pa. I think that some amount of switchgrass is beneficial but I expect that a more scientific study would also show that it's best when mixed in with more open areas, other grasses and accompanied by some amount of nearby brushy, fruit producing cover or row crops no matter east west north or south. Nearby means the less distance the birds have to travel the better.

It doesn't matter if the birds are put take if there is any kind of reasonable length to the hunting season. The more varied cover conditions also help put and take birds to better survive weather and predation too. They wise up pretty well if given the right conditions to have that chance.
 
Up until about five years ago I think everyone was of the same mindset that diversity was the way to go. The WPRA's were initialy setup with this belief in mind. I myself would look for this type of habitat while searching for remaining wild pheasants in NJ, NY, and Pa. I've been lucky enough to find some very small populations.
The biologists working on these WPRA's are starting to change their thinking. Why? Because almost by mistake some farms were predominately planted in switch grass while the others were planted in the planned diverse habitat. The results were shocking, it wasn't even close. The planned farms did hold a few wild birds, but the switch grass farms had a pheasant explosion.When more switch grass was added the results were the same. They just couldn't ignore the proof in front of their eyes! Keep in mind there plenty of diversity rigth out side of these switch grass fields. The good news is THIS IS WORKING, and the future looks bright as we continue to learn.
 
Yeh, I saw that, those large fields of mostly big blue stem are next to worthless late in the season after it snows... Including a significant amount of Big Blue stem is not what I'd refer to a "diverse" plantings. I'd agree, the "experts" get it wrong in doing so..
 
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The seed mix in these crep plantings included big blue stem, little blue stem, Indiangrass, switchgrass, wild rye and wild flowers. The mix had 2 to 3 lbs of switchgrass (in my opinion too little) but an herbicide called Plateau was used for weed control. Unfortunately, Plateau kills switchgrass so even the small amount planted did not survive. I don't think the fields need to be all switch but neither have I seen anything that proves it can't be.
 
I now You guys understand that the millions of pheasants produced by Soil Bank and then again with the Earlier CRP. Wasn't so much by the grasses alone, all the stuff that came up with the grass was VERY bird friendly. Weeds of all kinds are full of seeds for sure. Alfalfa nearly always was part of the mix.
I see that Switch in the mix is fine, can't see it planted alone.
Why do so many hate the idea of alfalfa in the mix?
It works REALLY! REALLY! well.
Tons of insects, canopy, Pheasants love eating the leaves, Leaves are available and green year around, varieties like Ranger seed like crazy and the pods stay on the plant through the Winter, birds do well on the seed.
compared to native grasses N.W. varieties of Alfalfa are cheap.

You guys in the East like seeing some birds in Your Switch.
What I'm talking about is 40's 80's, sections of the mixed grasslands producing 100's or thousands of wild pheasants. :thumbsup:
 
I couldn't agree more.
When I started hunting in NE Ohio I hunted regional wild birds. As a youth before I was allowed to carry a gun I regularly went out the back door with my mutt and pursued pheasants just for the fun of doing it. Any sort of large stands of switch grass were unheard of and you'd only find clumps of it here and there. I don't think I ever saw any Big Blue stem in this region. Most fields were composed of a variety of grasses and weeds with seeds along with numerous brushy hedges, small apple orchards and small farms. We commonly would flush flocks of a dozen or more wild birds at a time. The populations began to drastically decline in the early to mid 70's. These are the same kinds of conditions that I find put and take birds are able to survive through to late in the hunting season.
 
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I got this same response from our game bird biologist here in PA. His question was, "how much switchgrass did we have in the 60s when we had hundreds of thousands of birds?" My answer, none. However, things are much different today than they were in the 60s. No round-up ready corn and beans for a start. You had to cultivate the corn and it would get thick with foxtail and stocks were left in the field at waist high leaving little foxtail teepees all over the field. Hedgerows were wide and thick. More timbering had been done and woodlots were thick with greenbriar. All these things afforded the pheasant good winter cover, brood rearing cover and of course trapping was more popular as fur prices were high and predator numbers were low.

One reason we can't put alfalfa in the switchgrass is because the switchgrass needs to be sprayed with a board leaf herbicide every 3 or 4 years to maintain the density for good cover. This leaves us with just grasses and food needs to be next door instead of in the mix. Our state game bird biologist is now a believer in switchgrass. Our data leaves you with no other option. When you drive around in February with six inches of snow, only then can you gauge your winter cover quality. Switch is the missing ingredient in the east. Not as important in the west but I think patches of switch would improve numbers in the west too.
 
I'm just going to leave this alone.
Switch need to be sprayed every 3-4 years.
That is not pheasant friendly.

Wish You guys the best.:thumbsup:
 
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